tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post9075070892327527470..comments2024-03-28T20:30:10.681-04:00Comments on southern orders: THE SECULAR PRESS' CYNICAL BUT PERHAPS TRUE ASSESSMENT OF THE MISSION OF POPE FRANCIS AT THE VATICANFr. Allan J. McDonaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-38660891318500320262013-07-09T16:53:13.926-04:002013-07-09T16:53:13.926-04:00If only someone with authority and omniscience wou...If only someone with authority and omniscience would answered the question of whether there will always be poor people...Marcnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-1061927786626429592013-07-08T11:25:59.729-04:002013-07-08T11:25:59.729-04:003000 euros a month is well above the European aver...3000 euros a month is well above the European average, and if a German priest (with no wife and children to support and his accommodation found) earns even more than this, I am surprised there is a shortage of vocations.<br /><br />Anonymous, old-timey vestments, as you rather inelegantly put it, are rarely bought new and were paid for years ago. New Roman-style vestments are actually made in India and can be bought on-line for less than the average American spends on a pair of trainers. And they are only needed because some trendy former parish priest threw out the traditional ones in the 1960 and invested in a set of polyester ponchos (you can have any colour as long as it's NOT black).<br /><br />Recently a woman confronted one of the Fathers of the London Oratory after Solemn Mass in high dudgeon - she had noticed the flower arrangements on the Lady Altar, the vestments and the gold plate in the sanctuary and wanted to know why the funds for these had not been given to the poor. It was explained to her that the flowers had been left over from a wedding the day before, the silver-gilt chalice and ciborium had been bought for a song in 1850 when Swabian rococo was not in vogue, and after 150 years of wear the vestments were too threadbare to fetch much at auction. She left somewhat placated and drove away in a brand-new car which a Google search revealed would have cost her £90,000.John Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027156691859606002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-68498008702144030112013-07-07T09:33:00.155-04:002013-07-07T09:33:00.155-04:00Gene: Where are the Liturgical reforms that will ...Gene: <b> Where are the Liturgical reforms that will signal a serious return to true Catholic identity? As long as we have an NO that is random, inconsistent, desultory, humanistic, and pedestrian it is impossible to take seriously all the talk about the Devil, corruption, and reform."</b><br /><br />I cannot recall having seen truer words in any post or comment here.<br /><br />Of course the Vatican stables should be cleaned out, but anyone who--like the immediately preceding Anonymous--thinks reverent worship of God is about money and externals (rather than internal prayer and sacrifice) illustrates the problem rather than the solution to the current crisis in the Church.Henrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-84813218766578435812013-07-06T22:00:34.412-04:002013-07-06T22:00:34.412-04:00First, I highly doubt that changing the liturgy wi...First, I highly doubt that changing the liturgy will change the culture. Traditionalist type priests are as guilty as modernist priests of corruption. Those old-timey vestments cost money.<br /><br />Second, the whole culture of the Vatican reminds me a lot of the culture of corruption in IL. Blago wanted to get rich as a governor and the Curia officials expect to live like princes. What the Cardinals receive in compensation isn't that much, but I'm also assuming that it is tax free and they aren't getting deducted for benefits. Also, it is my understanding they don't pay for most of their living expenses. I believe that the Vatican provides them with an apartment, etc. So basically you are looking at a bunch of greedy men who think that they are "Renaissance Princes." <br /><br />I wonder how a blue collar guy who has a large Catholic family and is trying to raise them on about $50K per year thinks about the article. It just seems really hypocritical for the Church to demand large families and stay at home moms while the "princes of the church" cannot live on the same salaries that they expect the laity with multiple children to live on. <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-66689174711333304492013-07-06T16:21:34.912-04:002013-07-06T16:21:34.912-04:00Yeah, Anon 5, the Church is sort of like Aesop'...Yeah, Anon 5, the Church is sort of like Aesop's dog on the bridge holding a steak in his mouth. The reflection of the steak in the water is (fill in the blank)........... <br />1. protestantism<br />2. modernism<br />3. "the poor"<br />4. the Democratic Party<br />5. collectivism<br />6. all of the aboveGenehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-61929117713131123522013-07-06T13:22:40.172-04:002013-07-06T13:22:40.172-04:00JBS,
Point well-taken, but there's always the...JBS,<br /><br />Point well-taken, but there's always the wise reallocation of the tithe to get the attention of the hierarchy.<br /><br />rcg: as someone mentioned to me just yesterday, while the Church is out seeking to evangelize the lost sheep, it has taken its eye off of the fold already in the Church and the wolves have run rampant within.Hammer of Fascistshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08647227447212096501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-10588332183881518352013-07-06T12:22:28.214-04:002013-07-06T12:22:28.214-04:00Gene, you are right, but...
The problem was that ...Gene, you are right, but...<br /><br />The problem was that what was a novelty became the norm. I seems that Vat II allowed for variations to allow greater access and thus evangelization. But what happened was a dilution of the refined Liturgy forged over nearly 2000 years. Whether that was on purpose or not is clearly water under the bridge, because the instigators are either dead or knocking on the door. <br /><br />So back to your point, I think The Pope, both Popes, intend for the Church to be more accessible but in order to convert, not be converted, by those who enter. I think the answer is to continue the revolution through networks of 'stable groups' that support each other and help to found, nurture and grow, new ones. We have to do that while not running off everyone who does not yet see the Liturgy the way we do.rcghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09131930849106490711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-19935951694581647802013-07-06T11:45:29.787-04:002013-07-06T11:45:29.787-04:00Anonymous 5,
"Catholics need to recognize th...Anonymous 5, <br />"Catholics need to recognize that there is a problem and deal with it decisively..." I suggest that 99% of Catholics are unaffected by Mafia ties to the Vatican City bank. At any rate, there is nothing 99% of Catholics can do about this relatively minor problem, decisively or otherwise. I would, however, agree that the pope needs to recognize that there is a problem and deal with it decisively. Rood Screenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09816036539243214384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-72919398629146035112013-07-06T11:00:02.331-04:002013-07-06T11:00:02.331-04:00Anon 5, I was going to mention Luther...his descri...Anon 5, I was going to mention Luther...his descriptions, and denouncements of Papal corruption are eloquent and, in the vernacular, amusingly ribald.<br /><br />The question I would again ask with regard to all this literal pontificating is: Where are the Liturgical reforms that will signal a serious return to true Catholic identity? As long as we have an NO that is random, inconsistent, desultory, humanistic, and pedestrian it is impossible to take seriously all the talk about the Devil, corruption, and reform. There is nothing in all of Christendom that signifies true Catholicism, indeed true Christianity, as the Mass does. All dogma, theology, and doctrine derive from and point to the Mass. If we are not going to have the TLM exclusively, then let's at least turn the NO ad orientum, clean it up, and teach a generation of Priests how to celebrate it properly. Otherwise, the world will greet all the talk with a huge "ho hum."Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-33269076343022914682013-07-06T10:36:55.429-04:002013-07-06T10:36:55.429-04:00I really like this article!
~SLI really like this article!<br />~SLAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-6921694714238276952013-07-06T09:26:50.969-04:002013-07-06T09:26:50.969-04:00The article didn't strike me as cynical. Maybe...The article didn't strike me as cynical. Maybe it's my Protestant/puritanical streak showing, but the type of corruption it recounts is one reason Luther was so successful, and it's impossible to justify. Catholics need to recognize that there is a problem and deal with it decisively, or Catholicism will suffer. I agree with rcg.Hammer of Fascistshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08647227447212096501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-67972755951307065452013-07-06T08:32:53.586-04:002013-07-06T08:32:53.586-04:00That is music to my ears. I hope it is true. That is music to my ears. I hope it is true. rcghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09131930849106490711noreply@blogger.com