tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post8637500101486677472..comments2024-03-28T12:59:52.914-04:00Comments on southern orders: IF YOU CAN'T HAVE EVERYTHING YOU WANT IN TERMS OF RENEWAL IN CONTINUITY WITH THE MANNER IN WHICH HOLY HOLY COMMUNION IS RECEIVED BY THE CATHOIC LAITY, THEN WE SHOULD PICK AND CHOOSE IN TERMS OF PRIORITY AND WHAT IS MORE IMPORTANTFr. Allan J. McDonaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-65294109028007116602018-03-02T20:05:27.117-05:002018-03-02T20:05:27.117-05:00From the writing of John A. Hardon, S.J. and other...From the writing of John A. Hardon, S.J. and others on Eucharistic presence:<br /><br />Belief in the real, physical presence of Christ in the Eucharist grew <br />out of the teaching of the evangelists and St. Paul. They made it <br />plain to the apostolic Church that the Eucharistic elements were <br />literally Jesus Christ continuing His saving mission among men.<br /><br />At the turn of the first century, Ignatius of Antioch, on his way to <br />martyrdom in Rome, had to warn the Christians not to be taken in by <br />the Gnostics--a good modern term would be "visionaries," who denied <br />the Real Presence. Ignatius said these people abstained from the <br />Eucharist because they did not accept what true Christians believe, <br />that in the Eucharist is the same Jesus Christ Who lived and died and <br />rose from the dead for our salvation.<br /><br />In the 11th century the French monk Berengar of Tours began to teach that the bread and wine in the celebration of the Eucharist could not change physically into the body and blood of Jesus Christ. Pope Gregory VII demanded a retraction from Berengar saying that the body and blood of Christ were truly present in the Eucharist. This resulted in a refining of the church’s teaching on the real presence.<br /><br />Pope Gregory VII :<br /><br />"I believe in my heart and openly profess that the bread and wine <br />placed upon the altar are, by the mystery of the sacred prayer and <br />the words of the Redeemer, substantially changed into the true and <br />life-giving flesh and blood of Jesus Christ our Lord, and that after <br />the consecration, there is present the true body of Christ which was <br />born of the Virgin and offered up for the salvation of the world, <br />hung on the cross and now sits at the right hand of the Father, and <br />that there is present the true blood of Christ which flowed from his <br />side. They are present not only by means of a sign and of the <br />efficacy of the Sacrament, but also in the very reality and truth of <br />their nature and substance."<br /><br />The Church of God has always believed that immediately after the <br />consecration the true Body and Blood of our Lord, together with His <br />soul and divinity, exist under the species of bread and wine.<br />Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05809499822558662728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-9264572551913600792018-03-02T16:00:50.019-05:002018-03-02T16:00:50.019-05:00Anonymous at 10:12 pm,
Thank you for this informa...Anonymous at 10:12 pm,<br /><br />Thank you for this information. I am an admirer of Evelyn Waugh also (both as a writer and a Catholic), but you obviously know much more than me about him.Henryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12780755069760197497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-36704383249433381232018-03-02T09:18:36.718-05:002018-03-02T09:18:36.718-05:00I wonder if what C S Lewis wrote in "Mere Chr...I wonder if what C S Lewis wrote in "Mere Christianity" about the Atonement could also be applied in part to the different theories and explanations of how Christ is present in the bread and wine at Mass?<br /><br />"The central Christian belief is that Christ's death has somehow put us right with God and given us a fresh start. Theories as to how it did this are another matter. A good many different theories have been held as to how it works; what all Christians are agreed on is that it does work. I will tell you what I think it is like. All sensible people know that if you are tired and hungry a meal will do you good. But the modern theory of nourishment - all about the vitamins and proteins - is a different thing. People ate their dinners and felt better long before the theory of vitamins was ever heard of ; and if the theory of vitamins is some day abandoned they will go on eating their dinners just the same. THEORIES ABOUT CHRIST'S DEATH ARE NOT CHRISTIANITY ; they are explanations of how it works. Christians would not all agree as to how important these theories are.........But I think they will all agree that THE THING ITSELF IS INFINITELY MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE EXPLANATIONS THAT THEOLOGIANS HAVE PRODUCED. I think they would probably admit that no explanation will ever be quite adequate to the reality. ...."<br /><br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-32121138527582569082018-03-02T07:48:16.996-05:002018-03-02T07:48:16.996-05:00The Council of Trent spoke of Christ's presenc...The Council of Trent spoke of Christ's presence using three adverbs, "truly," "really," and "substantially."<br /><br />The Church uses the term "transubstantiation" to describe "how" Christ is present. <br /><br />This is the Church's teaching and I believe what the Church teaches.<br /><br />If you want to use the term "actually," then do so. <br /><br />But the term "literally" is another matter."<br /><br />God is present in Baptism and Confirmation, but I don't think the Church has used the terms "truly," "really," or "substantially" to describe that presence. These terms were specifically used to refer to the unique presence of the Lord under the forms of bread and wine. They were used specifically in response to some Protestant teachings that were at odds with the Traditional understanding the Church taught. He is present there in a way He is not present in the other sacraments.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-30850084207543583932018-03-01T22:12:46.817-05:002018-03-01T22:12:46.817-05:00Henry,
That Christopher Sykes quote was from his ...Henry, <br />That Christopher Sykes quote was from his biography of Evelyn Waugh; but it was his view quoted, which Waugh would have agreed with. <br /><br />Sykes wrote a good biography of Waugh but I believe the biographies by Martin Stannard and Selina Hastings were better.<br /><br />In Hastings' biography, p.618, Waugh is quoted thus:<br /><br />(early 1960s)....."...As the service proceeded in its familiar way I wondered how many of us wanted to see any change. The church is rather dark. The priest stood rather far away. His voice was not clear and the language he spoke was not of everyday use. This was the Mass for whose restoration the Elizabethan martyrs had gone to the scaffold. St Augustine, St Thomas a Becket, St Thomas More, Challoner and Newman would have been perfectly at their ease among us.....<br />I think it highly doubtful whether the average churchgoer either needs or desires to have complete intellectual, verbal comprehension of all that is said.....in most of the historic Churches the act of consecration takes place behind curtains or doors. The idea of crowding around the priest and watching all he does is quite alien there......Awe is the natural predisposition to prayer. When young theologians talk, as they do, of Holy Communion as a 'social meal' they find little response in the hearts or minds of their less sophisticated brothers."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-433701054053597142018-03-01T21:57:34.029-05:002018-03-01T21:57:34.029-05:00Anon at 7.09PM
Have the novel ways of understandi...Anon at 7.09PM<br /><br />Have the novel ways of understanding and explaining the Real Presence - (or deciding where or where not to give emphasis on what Catholics from Aquinas to Paul VI etc wrote about the Real Presence) be it in 16th century reformation Europe or among Catholic priests and theologians since c. 1960 who basically agree with leading modern theologians like Edward Schillebeeckx - led to an increase or a decrease in Eucharistic piety among millions of average believers?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-509005462416614162018-03-01T21:45:14.442-05:002018-03-01T21:45:14.442-05:00Anonymous at 7.09PM.
Is your view, understanding ...Anonymous at 7.09PM.<br /><br />Is your view, understanding of the Eucharist and the Real Presence similar in any way to TRANSIGNIFICATION as it was defined above by anon at 9.37AM ?<br /><br />If you believe it is not similar, how is it not similar ?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-4013479754458357572018-03-01T20:14:49.800-05:002018-03-01T20:14:49.800-05:00We can speak of sacramental presence, but not of a...We can speak of sacramental presence, but not of actual presence?<br />At a child's baptism , is not the Holy Spirit truly and actually present?<br />Or at a confirmation? You can characterize it as a sacramental presence if you so choose, but is the Person of the Holy Spirit actually there? <br /><br />He is there. Likewise, the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ is present in the Eucharist. You don't believe and accept that?Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05809499822558662728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-30325932871550127272018-03-01T19:09:27.538-05:002018-03-01T19:09:27.538-05:00The Church and the Church's theologians descri...The Church and the Church's theologians describe it as a sacramental presence.<br /><br />It is not a literal presence since, you can not literally perceive Jesus in the Eucharist.<br /><br />"Literally" is one of the most misused words around today. <br /><br />"He was literally pulling his hair out!" Yet, there are no clumps of hair on the ground.<br /><br />"He was literally climbing the walls!" No, he was extremely anxious, but he is physically incapable of climbing walls.<br /><br />"That car was literally flying around the racetrack!" No, it was going fast, but the wheels stayed on the ground.<br /><br />Mysterium Fidei 23: "But this is not enough. Once the integrity of the faith has been safeguarded, then it is time to guard the proper way of expressing it, lest our careless use of words give rise, God forbid, to false opinions regarding faith in the most sublime things."<br /> <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-30631800629564406382018-03-01T17:58:29.033-05:002018-03-01T17:58:29.033-05:00If one goes to the Adoration Chapel, one is in the...<br />If one goes to the Adoration Chapel, one is in the presence of God, the Second Person of the Trinity, who possesses both a Divine and human nature in an inseparable unity. When someone is present in our existence in some place, that person is actually there. Christ is a person both human and Divine who is as capable as any to be substantially present in whatever place He desires to be in His creation. Even more so, since being that He is God, He is capable of being in more than one place at the same time. Being God, he transcends the bounds of His own creation. What kind of God would we have if He could do no more than His creatures? And so, at Mass, He is truly and substantially present in every consecrated Host. There were those who left Jesus because they could not accept His teaching on this. I wonder if there were some of them who might have stayed, if only He told them He was "sacramentally" present.<br /><br />I wish I could remember where I read the following( which I managed to save to a file):<br /><br />"In John 6:50-53 we encounter various forms of the Greek verb phago, “eating.” However, after the Jews begin to express incredulity at the idea of eating Christ’s flesh, the language begins to intensify. In verse 54, John begins to use trogo instead of phago. Trogo is a decidedly more graphic term, meaning “to chew on”.<br /><br />That doesn't sound Like a sacramental presence to me. <br /><br />God does provide for us in so many ways and has even left us Eucharistic miracles which have been investigated and attested to, and which give observable evidence of <br />His presence, His Body and Blood. <br />Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05809499822558662728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-24454875616040715632018-03-01T09:46:00.430-05:002018-03-01T09:46:00.430-05:00There is nothing novel in Cardinal Dulles' tho...There is nothing novel in Cardinal Dulles' thoughts nor in those of St. Thomas Aquinas.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-48408348244955967152018-03-01T09:37:02.071-05:002018-03-01T09:37:02.071-05:00In 1965, Paul VI wrote : It is wrong to exaggerate...In 1965, Paul VI wrote : It is wrong to exaggerate the element of sacramental sign as if the symbolism, which all certainly admit in the Eucharist, expresses fully and exhausts completely the mode of Christ's presence in this sacrament. (Mysterium Fedei).<br /><br />I believe there has to be a marvellous conversion of the whole substance of the bread into the Body of Christ and the whole substance of the wine into the Blood of Christ<br /><br />OR<br /><br />There is TRANSIGNIFICATION, which states or suggests that although Christ's body and blood are not literally, physically present in the Eucharist, they are really and objectively so, as the elements take on, at the consecration, the real SIGNIFICANCE of Christ's body and blood which thus become SACRAMENTALLY present.<br /><br />IF many Catholics in the past were too "materialistic" in part in their views and beliefs on the Real Presence I do not think that led in past times to decreased Eucharistic piety and it did not threaten Eucharistic devotions. While novel ways and new teachings on the Eucharist and Real Presence or partially regurgitating and or re-presenting past protestant beliefs and views on the Eucharist mostly only weakens Eucharistic piety among Catholics.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-59753224387841457822018-03-01T09:26:46.224-05:002018-03-01T09:26:46.224-05:00Anonymous at 12:50 am,
Is that Christopher Sykes ...Anonymous at 12:50 am,<br /><br />Is that Christopher Sykes quote from his biography of Evelyn Waugh?Henryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12780755069760197497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-42846113224693712982018-03-01T09:19:32.909-05:002018-03-01T09:19:32.909-05:00"it is unlikely that women received in this m..."it is unlikely that women received in this manner (let alone picked up the Host and handed it to another lay person)."<br /><br />In his book "Dominus Est", Bishop Athanasius Schneider mentions that women wore gloves for reception in the hand held as a throne, so the sacred species did not touch their bare flesh. Men received on the bare palm, hands purified before and after. Neither's fingers ever touched the host.Henryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12780755069760197497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-72284245089415115362018-03-01T09:11:32.450-05:002018-03-01T09:11:32.450-05:00"However I cannot imagine that Most parishes ..."However I cannot imagine that Most parishes could pull the pre 1955 liturgies off well"<br /><br />In our parish we celebrated the pre-1955 Holy Week rites in the three solemn services, with 3 priests from different parishes, MC, thurifer, and acolytes, all doing it for the first time. The three services went smoothly with three different MC's--high school and college boys each with a decade of TLM experience--who had been assigned in advance to prepare to direct the priests and servers through the complex ceremonies.<br /><br />That "liturgical masterpiece, the Good Friday Mass of the Presanctified", seemed especially moving, in some ineffable sense the most Catholic ritual I'd ever seen.Henryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12780755069760197497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-15950022742803049962018-03-01T08:04:25.583-05:002018-03-01T08:04:25.583-05:00It all depends on what the word “is” means. What a...It all depends on what the word “is” means. What a waste of time such a discussion is. Marchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13510317669833026685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-88672536883556981562018-03-01T07:35:21.421-05:002018-03-01T07:35:21.421-05:00George, I would add that the very word we use to d...George, I would add that the very word we use to describe how Christ is present in the Eucharist - transubstantiation - does not describe in any way a "literal" change, but a sacramental or symbolic (used in the sacramental sense) change. The substance and the accidents of some thing are both essential elements of that thing. In the Eucharist the substance is changed while the accidents, which give a thing its "literal" reality, do not. <br /><br />St. Thomas Aquinas emphasizes this by asserting that the nutritive aspects of bread and wine. (See Summa theologiae, III, q. 77, art. 6, "Can the species nourish?" Saint Thomas refers to I Cor 11:21 and the standard commentaries to show that the species, taken in sufficient quantities, can satisfy hunger and inebriate.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-73855166239555769292018-03-01T07:22:53.691-05:002018-03-01T07:22:53.691-05:00George - I do believe that Christ is present in th...George - I do believe that Christ is present in the Eucharist - Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity. His presence is sacramental, not literal. <br /><br />Theology is a science and words and phrases are its weights and measures - they must be used very precisely.<br /><br />Note the difference between "homoousios" and "homoiousios." There the difference is that one iota, but it is the difference that matters.<br /><br />Many signs/symbols point to but do not contain the reality they signify. A STOP sign does not have in itself what it signifies or points to. But, this particular sign communicates nonetheless, and has, we hope as drivers, the intended effect.<br /><br />Sacramental signs/symbols DO contain the reality they signify. The water of Baptism and the act of pouring that water DOES wash the catechumen of Original Sin, DOES make the catechumen a child of God, and DOES make him/her a member of the Church. The vows spoken by a man and woman in the marriage ceremony DO make them one.<br /><br />If someone handed you a sack and said "There is literally a rock in this sack" and you opened the sack you would see, if the giver is truthful, a rock. It would have all the physical characteristics (the "accidents") of a rock - weight, size, color, chemical makeup. You would see the "accidents" of a rock and know the statement is true, a rock is literally in the sack.<br /><br />If someone showed you a consecrated host and said, "There is literally Jesus, Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity in this host" you would look in vain for the physical characteristics of Jesus. There is no weight, size, color, or chemical makeup of the God-Man Jesus. The accidents remain those of bread/wine. <br /><br />His presence there is real, but it is not literal. It is sacramental. He is there under the appearances of bread and wine. <br /><br />The Council of Trent spoke of Christ's presence using three adverbs, "truly," "really," and "substantially." Cardinal Avery Dulles has written, "Some Christians have understood the presence of Christ in the Eucharist in too materialistic a way, without sufficiently distinguishing between His natural and His sacramental presence." To suggest that Jesus is "literally" present is to fall into the materialistic error. Dulles continues, "The body of Christ is truly present in the Eucharist, but not in the way bodies are in place. Its parts and dimensions cannot be measured against other bodies. His circumference is not that of the host. In opposition to the naïve realists, therefore, Saint Thomas holds that when we look at the host we do not see the shape and colors that properly belong to the body of Christ, but those of the host itself. We are not in the same situation as the disciples before the Ascension, to whom Christ appeared in His own body. When we look at the host or chalice on the altar, the visible aspects or phenomena are still those of the bread and wine."<br /><br />Christ's sacramental, symbolic (used in the theological sense) presence is real. I am grateful for the gift of faith which allows me to believe this.<br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-18590775295675872142018-03-01T00:50:34.934-05:002018-03-01T00:50:34.934-05:00" (in the 1950s) ....the new service retained..." (in the 1950s) ....the new service retained much of the beauty of the old, and the overwhelmingly impressive Maundy Thursday Mass, the 'Altar of Repose', the night offices of Tenebrae, and the liturgical masterpiece, the Good Friday 'Mass of the Presanctified', remained intact. Not for long. The belief grew that the celebration of Holy Week would be more valuable, would compel a greater corporate sense in the Church, if it was expressed in ceremonies which did not involve a keen appreciation of symbolism, if they were more easily understood by ordinary people and invited more 'mass participation' in the form of community singing; if they appealed less to the sense of awe, they avoided the accusation of meretricious aestheticism, above all of excessive indulgence of the sense of the past. Nowhere did the notion of a 'Century of the Common Man' exert more fascination than on Roman Catholic clergy. The entire edifice of the Holy Week Liturgy was swept away as being over-elaborate, and it was substituted by services of a more everyday kind. This was the beginning of a movement which was to reduce all Roman Catholic ceremonial to commonplace and to abolish the traditional order of the Mass in favour of a prayer-meeting in which only essential vestiges of the traditional celebration were retained."<br /><br />Christopher Sykes, 1975.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-41983058095557994692018-02-28T19:07:50.801-05:002018-02-28T19:07:50.801-05:00Belief in the Eucharist as being the Being the Bod...Belief in the Eucharist as being the Being the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ is a gift of grace - if only it were that Anonymous at 10:54 would accept and possess it. It is not a symbolic presence at all. Human beings are capable of providing all manner of signs and symbols. Do you not believe that our God is capable of providing more than his mere creatures? <br />The phone that you carry around takes invisible electronic transmissions and converts them to what is visible to you. Would anyone of sound mind claim that these transmissions, and the images and audio emanating from the device are not real and just symbolic? While our bodily senses cannot perceive the change that occurs in transubstantiation, what Christian does not believe in grace which our senses likewise cannot perceive? Such are those things which come from a superior plane which we can only perceive or accept by the grace of God. <br />It is written in our Scripture that Christ, the Second Person of the Trinity said." “the bread which I shall give . . . is my flesh.” He did not say that it represents or is a symbol of His flesh.<br /><br />Is our God not one Who, in the Second person of His Trinitarian being, not capable of, actually, truly and substantially being present even under a different appearance, even of that of Bread and Wine? Is not His substantive, corporeal and Divine presence in the Eucharist what we as Catholics true to our Faith profess to believe? Is he not truly the Supreme Being, who because He is such, is capable of things so above us that we call them miracles and mysteries? For as the heavens are higher than the Earth are God's ways higher than our ways.<br />We know by faith that our Supernatural God is not limited by the laws of the natural order of things and their existence, because He after all brought these things into existence and so therefore they are in all ways subject to Him .Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05809499822558662728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-55209035893860406752018-02-28T18:31:25.898-05:002018-02-28T18:31:25.898-05:00The evidence we have about how Communion was recei...The evidence we have about how Communion was received in the hand in the early Church (and there is no indication as to how widespread it was) is that it was received in the palm of the right hand, with the left hand underneath, the hands not being extended and the fingers kept together, and then transferred directly to the mouth. It may be assumed that the hands were purified before and after, and it is unlikely that women received in this manner (let alone picked up the Host and handed it to another lay person).<br /><br />The practice of receiving the Host in the palm of the left hand and then picking it up with the fingers of the right is a recent and deplorable innovation. It amounts to self-communication, irrespective of how 'reverently' it is done. Fair enough, Fr K would say, just because it was never done before, doesn't mean it can't be done now.<br /><br />But not let's kid ourselves that it is a return to ancient usage, or that it is in line with Eastern practice - they might receive standing but by intinction with a spoon, and the small particle the communicant receives is from leavened bread.John Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027156691859606002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-45481034882110778572018-02-28T15:48:49.890-05:002018-02-28T15:48:49.890-05:00Michael,
When I was about your age I had grown up...Michael,<br /><br />When I was about your age I had grown up among mainly traditional Catholics and can still recall the shock and confusion to hear certain Catholic priests say things like - "The mass as sacrifice really only made sense to Catholics in past times......we have gradually moved on since then, we now have a better understanding of the Eucharist, thank God!"<br /><br />The mass as sacrifice - theologically out-dated?<br />Apparently, according to some Catholic priests. <br />And some people can be surprised about what their children have been taught at Catholic schools in recent times!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-75550809925778779032018-02-28T15:36:34.743-05:002018-02-28T15:36:34.743-05:00I think I would need a post graduate degree in the...I think I would need a post graduate degree in theology to know if my son's recent assignment on the Eucharist and the Real Presence was more in line with Berengar of Tours and Stercoranism, or Luther, or Calvin, or Zwingli or the 39 articles of the Church of England of 1563 or perhaps modernist theologians like Edward Schillebeeckx, etc but I am certain it is NOT at all in line with:<br /><br />"In the most blessed sacrament of the Eucharist, the body and blood, together with the soul and divinity, of our Lord Jesus Christ and therefore the whole Christ is truly present, really, and substantially contained." - Council of Trent, 1551.<br /><br />Or even:<br /><br />"This presence is called 'real' - by which is not intended to exclude the other types of presence as if they could not be 'real' too, but because it is a substantial presence by which Christ, God and man, makes himself wholly and entirely present." Paul VI, MF 39.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-71344334562182117292018-02-28T15:08:43.584-05:002018-02-28T15:08:43.584-05:00A biography of Evelyn Waugh by Selina Hastings has...A biography of Evelyn Waugh by Selina Hastings has the following on pp 616 - 617 :<br /><br />(In the 1950s) ...."the movement for change was based chiefly on a desire for liturgical reform, for a lay apostolate, and for an approach towards some degree of ecumenism. Pius XII had made a gesture in this direction with his reform of the Holy Week liturgy, much resented by Evelyn. At Downside for the Easter retreat of 1956 he had written in his diary '(the triduum was) rather boring since the new liturgy introduced for the first time leaves many hours unemployed....' and in a later article he complained bitterly of the new Holy Week services: 'For centuries these had been enriched by devotions which were dear to the laity - the anticipation of the morning office of Tenebrae, the vigil at the Altar of Repose, the Mass of the Presanctified.....Now nothing happens before Thursday evening. All Friday morning is empty. There is an hour or so in church on Friday afternoon.......All Saturday is quite blank until late at night. The Easter Mass is sung at midnight to a weary congregation who are constrained to 'renew their baptismal vows' in the vernacular and later repair to bed. The significance of Easter as A FEAST OF DAWN is quite lost!' ".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-59022790839669028112018-02-28T14:31:50.090-05:002018-02-28T14:31:50.090-05:00Anon at 10.54 am.
Could you please explain a litt...Anon at 10.54 am. <br />Could you please explain a little how a "sacramental presence" is a "SYMBOLIC presence" but "not a literal presence"?<br />Before Aquinas' use of Aristotelian metaphysics later in the 13th century, the Fourth Council of the Lateran in 1215 spoke of the bread and wine as "transubstantiated", by God's power, into His body and blood.<br />"His body and blood are truly contained in the sacrament of the altar...." <br />Thus, from 7 to 55 I have believed Jesus was literally present.<br />Have I been wrong?<br /><br />Perhaps our definitions of "literally" are literally different?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com