tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post852393346948691249..comments2024-03-28T20:30:10.681-04:00Comments on southern orders: CHRISTOPH CARDINAL SCHONBORN MAKES A GOOD CASE FOR THE CONTINUITY BETWEEN POPES FRANCIS AND BENEDICT BUT ACKNOWLEDGES THE DISCONTINUITY IN THE LATIN AMERICAN TEMPERAMENT AND JESUIT SPIRITUALITYFr. Allan J. McDonaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-36921600123449771672015-08-13T21:51:05.785-04:002015-08-13T21:51:05.785-04:00Mark Thomas:
In 1948, Pope Pius XII would have be...<br />Mark Thomas:<br /><br />In 1948, Pope Pius XII would have been 72. A person can have problems with cognitive function well before that age.<br />I'm not taking the position that he did, only refuting the implication of your anwer to Anonymous@7:44 AM.<br /><br />What specifically do you disagree with of the below actions? <br /><br />---Modernized Biblical studies...1943 A.D. And?<br /><br />-- Supported United Nations...1945 A.D. (and had called for a United Nations organization earlier than that). So? It was not a bad concept. Remember,Pope Venerable Pius XII had experienced two horrific wars. <br /><br />-- Organized the liturgical "reform" in 1947 A.D. What did he do that you have a problem with?<br /><br />-- Opened the door to Catholic participation in the Ecumenical Movement...1947 A.D. So?<br /><br />As far as the below:<br /><br />-- Placed Monsignor Bugnini in power to reform the Roman Liturgy...1948 A.D.<br /><br />That statement in itself does not convey to me the Pope's mindset or intention in this regard.<br /><br /> -In his words, first "eased the rigor on the law of the Eucharistic Fast...1953 A.D.<br /><br />Mark that is a discipline well within the purview of the Petrine ministry. No one is prevented for fasting<br />for a longer period of time if one wishes to do so.<br /><br />"From Pope Venerable Pius XII to date, Rome's liturgical and Ecumenical Movement revolutions have wrecked the Church. Holy men...whose polices and reforms have often failed badly."<br /><br />Did they fail because the policies and reforms were bad, or because they were implemented wrongly, as some have conjectured? If the latter, then it doesn't mean the policies and reforms were bad.<br /><br /><br />Georgenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-18737736829126410002015-08-13T14:21:07.318-04:002015-08-13T14:21:07.318-04:00Anonymous said..."Let's not forget that a...Anonymous said..."Let's not forget that all of the things mentioned above took place towards the end of Pope Pius' reign. When, to be honest, one has to question if he was in complete control of his faculties."<br /><br />Pope Venerable Pius XII reigned from 1939-1958 A.D.<br /><br />-- Modernized Biblical studies...1943 A.D.<br /><br />-- Supported United Nations...1945 A.D. (and had called for a United Nations organization earlier than that).<br /><br />-- Organized the liturgical "reform" in 1947 A.D. <br /><br />-- Opened the door to Catholic participation in the Ecumenical Movement...1947 A.D.<br /><br />-- Placed Monsignor Bugnini in power to reform the Roman Liturgy...1948 A.D.<br /><br />-- In his words, first "eased the rigor on the law of the Eucharistic Fast...1953 A.D.<br /><br />-- Tinkered with the Good Friday Prayer for the Jews...1955 A.D.<br /><br />Other than his having tinkered with the Good Friday Prayer for the Jews (1955 A.D.), Pope Venerable Pius XII had launched his programs of major reforms many years prior to the end of his reign.<br /><br />By the late 1940s, (even many years prior to that by then-Cardinal Pacelli (the future Pope Pius XII) man holy and wise Catholics, such as Father Leonard Feeney, had predicted and warned that the Church was headed full-speed into major liturgical and ecumenical revolutions.<br /><br />I believe that Pope Venerable Pius XII was akin to Popes Blessed Paul VI, Saint John Paul II, Benedict XVI, and Francis.<br /><br />That is, he was a holy man/Pope...not a modernist...but a Pope who believed that his policies and reforms would launch the Church into a new springtime.<br /><br />Unfortunately, history has demonstrated that such has not been the case.<br /><br />From Pope Venerable Pius XII to date, Rome's liturgical and Ecumenical Movement revolutions have wrecked the Church. Holy men...whose polices and reforms have often failed badly.<br /><br />Pax.<br /><br />Mark Thomas<br /><br />Mark Thomasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-26096036879483309412015-08-12T07:44:08.422-04:002015-08-12T07:44:08.422-04:00"Pope Venerable Pius XII had opened the door ..."Pope Venerable Pius XII had opened the door to Catholic participation in the Ecumenical Movement, launched radical liturgical reforms, threw in with the United Nations Organization, "modernized" Biblical studies, tinkered with the Eucharistic Fast, opened the door to questioning the ancient Good Friday Prayer for the Jews...that's just for starters."<br /><br />Let's not forget that all of the things mentioned above took place towards the end of Pope Pius' reign. When, to be honest, one has to question if he was in complete control of his faculties. Just look at some of the footage of Pius during the mid to late 1950's there are times when he doesn't even seem to realize what is going on. This is in no way a slander against a truly brilliant, holy, charitable towering figure like Pope Pius, but a realistic one. One has only to read his magnificent encyclical on the liturgy from the 1940's and then look at what happened in the 1950's and it's obvious that there is a huge difference. The truth is that Pius was used and betrayed by those around him. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-78394684513714117412015-08-11T22:02:57.788-04:002015-08-11T22:02:57.788-04:00"...he responded to questions about whether t..."...he responded to questions about whether the synod might approve proposals to change Catholic doctrine on the indissolubility of marriage and Church discipline that bars divorced-and-remarried Catholics from receiving the Eucharist. Cardinal Schönborn said, “I am confident there will be no change in doctrine."<br /><br />I don't know the specific wording of the question asked, but this suggests that admission of divorced and remarried to communion is merely a "disciplinary" matter, and thus the Cardinal's response does not provide any comfort that the "discipline" won't be changed. The problem is, the discipline directly impacts matters of doctrine, i.e., the indissolubility of marriage and the necessity not to partake of the Lord's body unworthily. Charles Gnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-20469174751482211222015-08-11T19:30:32.634-04:002015-08-11T19:30:32.634-04:00Lefebvrian..."Let's see the Cardinal demo...Lefebvrian..."Let's see the Cardinal demonstrate the continuity between...Pius XI, and Pius XII."<br /><br />If today's adult Traditional Catholics, along with the Internet, had lived from 1939-1958 A.D., the Traditional Catholic Blogosphere would have lambasted Pope Venerable Pius XII.<br /><br />Pope Venerable Pius XII had opened the door to Catholic participation in the Ecumenical Movement, launched radical liturgical reforms, threw in with the United Nations Organization, "modernized" Biblical studies, tinkered with the Eucharistic Fast, opened the door to questioning the ancient Good Friday Prayer for the Jews...that's just for starters.<br /><br />Just the fact that Pope Venerable Pius XII placed Monsignor Bugnini in power to "reform" the Roman Liturgy would have spurred Traditionalists to have labeled the Pope a "liberal."<br /><br />But Traditionalists would have promoted Pope Venerable Pius XII to a "modernist" when we add the fact that he had launched the Church into the Ecumenical Movement.<br /><br />There were major differences between the Pontificates of Pius XI and Venerable Pius XII.<br /><br />Mark ThomasMark Thomasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-31640572650267548592015-08-11T14:12:18.304-04:002015-08-11T14:12:18.304-04:00I'm baffled by the push to focus on the hurt c...I'm baffled by the push to focus on the hurt children suffer at the hands of the Church on account of some deficit of 'mercy'. What is this about? When did the Church impose some cruel punishment on children of divorce? Where have I missed all the scarlet "D"s branded on the divorced? When did it occur that children of divorced parents were singled out for abuse by the Church such that we need to entertain doctrinal or pastoral changes to "make them feel better"??<br /><br />The second bafflement comes from focus on divorce and remarriage and sodomy vs. all the other challenges facing the 300 million families in the Catholic Church. <br /><br />Who thinks divorce and remarriage and sodomy is a crisis in the persecuted Church in China? India? Oceania? Granted, adultery is always a threat but given the wider challenge of contraception, porn, poverty, persecution that affects 90% of all Catholic families, why is the fireworks not directed to addressing the vast majority of the actual world problems and instead is focused on the relatively minority issues?<br /><br />Granting de-facto equal status to divorced and remarried adulterers and sodomites isn't going to do a think to improve the situation of poverty, persecution, pornography, and de-personalization that comes with the contraceptive ideology. It's not going to improve the general health of the family. It won't even reach the majority of adulterers and sodomites since the vast majority of them aren't even practicing Catholics! <br /><br />The whole exercise strikes me as another case of blowing a perfect opportunity to get substantive improvements so as to chase after a predictably harmful trifle that ultimately serves only to dispirit, and disintegrate the fragile "communio" that is the Church.Jusadbellumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-4376925455834819732015-08-11T14:02:24.792-04:002015-08-11T14:02:24.792-04:00Articles like this one are incredibly rude to the ...Articles like this one are incredibly rude to the Pope. They assume that he cannot possibly mean what he says or that he hasn't put thought into what he says. Those who write these articles simply refuse to take the pope at his word. Instead, they would rather reinterpret what he says to fit within their preconceived notion of what he ought to be saying.<br /><br />The fact that so many words must be spilled to show a continuity between popes who reigned sequentially is telling in itself. Let's see the Cardinal demonstrate the continuity between Pope Francis and Pope Leo XIII or Benedict XV, Pius IX, Pius X, Pius XI, and Pius XII. <br /><br />If Pope Francis intended what he says to be in continuity with his predecessors, then he would say the same things they said. It should not require a scholarly article to fit his sayings into the Magisterial mold. To presume to do so is just that: presumptuous disregard for the person and intellect of the pope.Lefebvriannoreply@blogger.com