tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post7232117833404303934..comments2024-03-28T20:30:10.681-04:00Comments on southern orders: THE THREE ELEPHANTS IN THE ROOM THAT THE PROGRESSIVE CABAL IN THE CHURCH ARE PHOBIC TO SPEAK ABOUT AS THE CURRENT CRISIS BECOME ARMMAGEDDON: PATHOLOGICAL HOMOSEXUALITY, BISHOPS AND VATICAN IIFr. Allan J. McDonaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-39584786098871590232018-08-24T19:12:34.183-04:002018-08-24T19:12:34.183-04:00I really loved this post, Fr. McDonald. There was ...I really loved this post, Fr. McDonald. There was a lot here that needed to be said. Adam Michaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-7677036483405538902018-08-24T16:44:26.974-04:002018-08-24T16:44:26.974-04:00Mark Thomas said:
"But then, I am certain th...Mark Thomas said:<br /><br />"But then, I am certain that my sins and actions in public have spurred people to contemplate..."Mark Thomas claims to be a Christian, but acts in contrary fashion."<br /><br />MT - I have never thought anything of the sort. Clearly, you are a Christian but, you often seem unwilling to reasonably consider the viewpoints of others - including our priest host and his brother priest contributors! Short of outright asking your age, I too am left conclude that your experiences with regard to much of the subject matter discussed here are more limited than the rest of us (e.g. we're both older and have experienced more of the post conciliar Church than you). <br /><br />My prayer for you is that you open your mind so that wherever and whenever truth is revealed, it becomes part of your spiritual arsenal. That way, you will be able to fight the good fight much more successfully. ByzRushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11543580976814745615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-53488530880224292422018-08-24T14:47:00.479-04:002018-08-24T14:47:00.479-04:00MT,
Running away from my arguments again, I see.MT,<br /><br />Running away from my arguments again, I see.TJMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-11380525439799777562018-08-24T13:55:39.379-04:002018-08-24T13:55:39.379-04:00Amen, Mark.Amen, Mark.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-80119454558667208142018-08-24T13:25:00.919-04:002018-08-24T13:25:00.919-04:00TJM:
Dead right. You nailed it. And the disaste...TJM:<br /><br />Dead right. You nailed it. And the disaster continues.Cletus Ordonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-49758791809697513122018-08-24T12:46:14.626-04:002018-08-24T12:46:14.626-04:00Anonymous said..."You are worthy of respect t...Anonymous said..."You are worthy of respect the way you keep coming back with loyalty to the Pope, regardless of insults and mockery at times, even when it is Pope Francis; such loyalty is worthy of reward because behind and at base that loyalty and love indicates with many people a love of God, a great love of God."<br /><br />Thank you for your kind words. In regard to respect: I know truly that I'm a nobody. As for my love of God: I am ashamed that I don't render sufficient love to God as I commit too many sins.<br />========================================================================================<br /><br />Anonymous said: "But to be honest, Mark, I do pray that you and all people say under 30 live to see a better Pope leading a better Church with MUCH better bishops some time during, say the next c. 50 years."<br /><br />Well...please keep in mind that we've had difficulties with bishops — Judas...Saint Peter denying Jesus three times — from the dawn of the Church.<br /><br />But then, I am certain that my sins and actions in public have spurred people to contemplate..."Mark Thomas claims to be a Christian, but acts in contrary fashion."<br /><br />Anonymous, let us pray for our Holy Father and bishops. Let us grant unto them the same amount of love and forgiveness — actually, a greater amount — as we desire to receive from God and each other. After all, Satan works overtime to attack Popes, Cardinals, bishops, and priests.<br /><br />Anonymous, I wish you and your family peace and good health. Please pray for me.<br /><br />Thank you.<br /><br />Pax.<br /><br />Mark ThomasMark Thomasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-77202383337577454822018-08-24T12:01:15.384-04:002018-08-24T12:01:15.384-04:00MT,
You are dead wrong, as usual. Pope John XXIII...MT,<br /><br />You are dead wrong, as usual. Pope John XXIII had no major plans for the liturgy. He wrote Veterum Sapientia on the eve of the Council (1962) and stated that Latin is the language which joins the Church of today. You seem to conveniently forget, John XXIII fired Bugnini, the architect of the failed Novus Ordo.<br /><br />The Novus Ordo has been such a massive success that maybe at best, 20% of American Catholics attend Sunday Mass, whereas prior to the Council, it was around 80%.<br /><br />People like John Nolan and myself were around when the disastrous changes occurred. Based on your writing, I assume you were born in the 1990s or the early party of this century. <br /><br />There was NO overwhelming support for any of the changes you cite. It was a top-down movement by an arrogant, elitist group of loonies. I lived through this, you didn't. So you don't know what you are talking about.<br /><br /><br />TJMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-18738551212810556712018-08-24T11:56:27.388-04:002018-08-24T11:56:27.388-04:00Anonymous:
With regard to that young priest we ar...Anonymous:<br /><br />With regard to that young priest we are talking about, his problem is the fault of the last generation of priests and HE suffers for it, as do many like him. <br /><br />IT IS DEPLORABLE, DESPICABLE AND INEXCUSABLE that we have had so many priests look the other way for the last four decades. It is DEPLORABLE, DESPICABLE and INEXCUSABLE that our parishes have been catechized and preached to so poorly that they do not even know what the Church's position is on so many issues. It is DEPLORABLE, DESPICABLE and INEXCUSABLE that so many pastors took the comfortable route of "not giving offense" (read: I won't upset anyone because he/she might write the bishop or stop tithing) that they allowed the amoral and the immoral to take leadership positions in our parish.<br /><br />Yet for the same four decades, we have heard about how badly we need priests. We read the same vacuous "prayer for vocations" at every Mass. Then when these priests come, Fr. Company Man makes their lives a living hell or destroys their vocation altogether (that has happened at least TWICE at the very same parish, under the "leadership" of a grouchy Irishman whose biggest concern was attending high school football on Friday nights and showing everyone the Obama poster in his office). <br /><br />Gee, how could we possibly get cynical?<br /><br />I BLAME YOU "COMPANY MEN". YOU DID IT! AND YOU WILL ANSWER FOR IT! May God have mercy on your souls.South Georgia Observernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-28171098657226255542018-08-24T11:00:00.379-04:002018-08-24T11:00:00.379-04:00Of course, given how bleak his view was of the Lat...Of course, given how bleak his view was of the Latin mass, he must have felt pretty silly promoting it.Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01504517769804159508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-63739796365158448362018-08-24T10:56:52.717-04:002018-08-24T10:56:52.717-04:00With Mark Thomas being the only one who is ever ri...With Mark Thomas being the only one who is ever right, I don't even need to read, or consider, any other comment.Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01504517769804159508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-47238531785593933112018-08-24T10:21:01.353-04:002018-08-24T10:21:01.353-04:00Mr. Nolan said..."Also, if you believe that &...Mr. Nolan said..."Also, if you believe that 'Vatican II, particularly with regard to liturgical matters' was 'greeted with tremendous enthusiasm' you were obviously not around at the time."<br /><br />Mr. Nolan, I said that within the Church, Vatican II, "particularly in regard to liturgical matters," was "greeted with tremendous enthusiasm."<br /><br />I did not address the post-Vatican situation within the Church.<br /><br />Tremendous enthusiasm, particularly in regard to liturgical reform, engulfed the Church when Pope Saint John XXIII's announced his plan to convoke Vatican II.<br /><br />Pope Venerable Pius XII had opened the door to radical liturgical reforms that laity welcomed in overwhelming fashion.<br /><br />Even Archbishop Lefebvre insisted that the time had arrived to introduce vernaculars into the Mass of the Catechumens.<br /><br />One Council Father after another, as well as such men as Father Ratzinger, insisted that Latin Church liturgy had stagnated.<br /><br />As Pope Benedict XVI/Cardinal Ratzinger noted, the authentic Vatican II, which he insisted had renewed the Church, has differed greatly from the "Council of the media."<br /><br />Pax.<br /><br />Mark ThomasMark Thomasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-35033945906538409572018-08-24T10:08:13.812-04:002018-08-24T10:08:13.812-04:00MT,
You realize of course, that most liturgists, ...MT,<br /><br />You realize of course, that most liturgists, view the Low Mass as not the optimal way to celebate the Roman Mass - they believe the sung Mass is the fullest expression of the Roman Mass. You realize of course, too, that the typical Sunday, Novus Ordo Mass, is basically a Low Mass, with 4 hymns.<br /><br />But now for the clincher:<br /><br />"The liturgical reform, in its concrete realization, has distanced itself even more from its origin. The result has not been a reanimation, but devastation. In place of the liturgy, fruit of a continual development, they have placed a fabricated liturgy. They have deserted a vital process of growth and becoming in order to substitute a fabrication. They did not want to continue the development, the organic maturing of something living through the centuries, and they replaced it, in the manner of technical production, by a fabrication, a banal product of the moment.” (Ratzinger in Revue Theologisches, Vol. 20, Feb. 1990, pgs. 103-104)<br /><br />This remark explains why Summorum Pontificum. Try to use your cognitive skills for once instead of cutting and pasting remarks which taken out of context do not convey realityTJMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-73674595860411158132018-08-24T09:32:36.539-04:002018-08-24T09:32:36.539-04:00Anon 9:42, I don’t know you but I do know the youn...Anon 9:42, I don’t know you but I do know the young priest of whom you speak. A very courageous man. He is beginning his martyrdom, and it may get much worse for him. May the holy angels protect him and may God deal strongly with the “company man”.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-90732278148354892392018-08-24T09:17:47.101-04:002018-08-24T09:17:47.101-04:00John Nolan said..."Ratzinger's perception...John Nolan said..."Ratzinger's perception of the pre-Vatican II liturgy was not as bleak as you insinuate, and cannot be used to excuse what the same Ratzinger called 'the disintegration of the liturgy' which followed the Council."<br /><br />Sorry, but Father Ratzinger painted a bleak picture of pre-Vatican II Roman liturgy.<br /><br />https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/ratzinger-vatican-ii<br /><br />From Father Ratzinger's "Theological Highlights of Vatican II":<br /><br />During the late Middle Ages, “awareness of the real essence of Christian worship increasingly vanished.” <br /><br />The Council of Trent centralized all liturgical authority in the “purely bureaucratic” Congregation of Rites. Lacking “historical perspective,” the congregation “viewed the liturgy solely in terms of ceremonial rubrics.” <br /><br />The Roman Liturgy had been reduced to a “court etiquette for sacred matters.” <br /><br />The Roman Liturgy had been reduced to “a rigid, fixed, and firmly encrusted system.”<br />=====================================================================================<br /><br />Cardinal Ratzinger, 1988 A.D: <br /><br />In regard to the TLM and Low Mass:<br /><br />"Perhaps these reductionist forms of celebration are the real reason that the disappearance of the old liturgical books was of no importance in many countries and caused no sorrow."<br /><br />"One was never in contact with the liturgy itself."<br /><br />Bleak.<br /><br />Pax.<br /><br />Mark ThomasMark Thomasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-28448619613980928002018-08-24T06:09:24.370-04:002018-08-24T06:09:24.370-04:00Ok, this is just my opinion--in fact, it's rea...Ok, this is just my opinion--in fact, it's really more of a theory.<br /><br />I believe the 3rd Secret of Fatima--the part that has been withheld--is all about the current condition of the Church and it likely foretold the changes that the Council would bring, if not the Council itself. We know that John XXIII opened the secret around 1960 and dismissed it as not concerning his papacy. I do not wish to detract form the personal holiness of John XXIII, but I suspect he believed that if he was careful enough, he could circumvent the disaster foretold in the secret (if he had any flaw, it was his excessively positive outlook). Since that time, the rest of the popes and high ranking cardinals have had to fall into line and dismiss the secret and tow the party line on Vatican II because to do otherwise would be to admit that they disobeyed the warning not to tamper with the Church's way of worshipping. Fortunately, we are finally getting more priests and even bishops who are not caught up in the cult of Vatican II.<br /><br />Just a theory.Cletus Ordonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-72444044398508086662018-08-24T04:15:00.985-04:002018-08-24T04:15:00.985-04:00Perhaps the communist infiltration was inspired to...Perhaps the communist infiltration was inspired too?Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01504517769804159508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-20846392938006589692018-08-23T21:42:20.029-04:002018-08-23T21:42:20.029-04:00I would agree that the homosexual problem in the e...I would agree that the homosexual problem in the episcopacy and priesthood existed before Vatican II. In fact, it's been with the Church in just about every age, but I do not believe it has ever existed before on the scale that it exists today. In one generation, I watched a generation of manly priests retire only to be replaced by a slew of effeminate males who were more devoted to their ambiguous agenda of Vatican II than to God. And the atmosphere of laxity created by Vatican II has allowed the homosexual subculture to thrive. In short, it took a bad situation and gave the Church the means to make it much, much worse.<br /><br />The gay subculture has created a priesthood that hates talking about sin--unless it's capitalism or American imperialism--but all else is not sin. They have created an atmosphere where the laity has the false illusion of "empowerment" to create parishes in their image and likeness or, more succinctly, to their likes and dislikes.<br /><br />In South Georgia, we have had 1 solid priest who had the guts to speak up about the truths of human sexuality and the purpose of marriage and his "company man" pastor silenced him. The openly homosexual musicians publicly living their brazen lifestyle and "ministering" to us at Mass despise this priest because he will not permit them to receive Holy Communion. And many in the parish can't understand why this young priest is so "uptight". Many others, myself included pray every day for this young priest because he is what God wanted priests to be and we desperately need him. We have had enough of "company men" who stand for nothing and have delivered us an anemic, postconciliar Church. Weak bishops and weak priests, the homosexual underground and a slavish devotion to a highly flawed Council have put the Church in serious jeopardy.<br /><br />My sincere recommendation to all the "company men" running our parishes. RETIRE. GO AWAY. If you won't help us clean up the problem, then get out of the way so we can have priests with the gonads to do the job. Please, just go. Find a nice commune and listen to your Peter Paul and Mary records. Your failed experiment isn't even on life-support anymore. IT'S OVER.<br /><br />DO YOURSELF AND THE REST OF US A FAVOR. QUIT. AND TAKE YOUR MILKTOAST BISHOPS WITH YOU.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-23228894240874257562018-08-23T18:48:21.647-04:002018-08-23T18:48:21.647-04:00I thoroughly agree with you, George. You illustrat...I thoroughly agree with you, George. You illustrate why it is important to pray for the Church from within, and not go running elsewhere to find God. We need to be polished, as painful as it is, and follow the example of the saints.Carol H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02475843499648488542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-51098722850119812452018-08-23T17:11:51.465-04:002018-08-23T17:11:51.465-04:00DJR
The claims may be new, but the alleged offenc...DJR<br /><br />The claims may be new, but the alleged offences occurred before 1990, and some date back to the 1940s.<br /><br />What really needs explaining is why alleged offences rose steeply in the 1960s, peaked in the 1970s, started to fall in the 1980s, declined sharply in the 1990s and have flatlined at close to zero since 2000.<br /><br /> John Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027156691859606002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-89212793901042436212018-08-23T16:56:51.054-04:002018-08-23T16:56:51.054-04:00I observe here lately a number of rats jumping Eas...I observe here lately a number of rats jumping Eastward or about to jump East off a still non-sinking ship. What heroes! <br /><br />Noted.<br /><br />CL.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-65650905332774526372018-08-23T16:46:53.743-04:002018-08-23T16:46:53.743-04:00Gerard.... give it time...Gerard.... give it time...Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01504517769804159508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-21049252378905994932018-08-23T16:44:10.733-04:002018-08-23T16:44:10.733-04:00Mark Thomas
If we are to believe the Holy Ghost i...Mark Thomas<br /><br />If we are to believe the Holy Ghost inspired the Council, what exactly do we mean? That John XXIII was inspired by the Holy Ghost when he summoned it? That those who drew up the schemata for the Council under John XXIII were inspired by the Holy Ghost? That those who effectively seized control of the Council in October 1962 and made sure those schemata were rejected were inspired by the Holy Ghost? That Paul VI, whose vision for the Council was very different from that of his predecessor, was inspired by the Holy Ghost? That Bugnini's removal by John XXIII and subsequent reinstatement by Paul VI were both inspired by the Holy Ghost? That the Council decrees were inspired by the Holy Ghost, in which case they are infallible? Of course not - all these propositions are absurd.<br /><br />Should any pope claim that his actions were directly inspired by the Holy Ghost, he would be declared either insane or a heretic. Also, if you believe that 'Vatican II, particularly with regard to liturgical matters' was 'greeted with tremendous enthusiasm' you were obviously not around at the time. Some loved the changes, others loathed them, but most went along with them (at least for the time being) in a spirit of resigned bewilderment. <br /><br />Ratzinger's perception of the pre-Vatican II liturgy was not as bleak as you insinuate, and cannot be used to excuse what the same Ratzinger called 'the disintegration of the liturgy' which followed the Council. John Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027156691859606002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-46564011599791764772018-08-23T15:50:21.884-04:002018-08-23T15:50:21.884-04:00I still don't get it. What "crisis"...I still don't get it. What "crisis"? This stuff is old, and things have been cleaned up.<br /><br />August 23, 2018: "Pittsburgh Diocese receives about 50 new abuse claims after grand jury report"<br /><br />http://www.post-gazette.com/local/city/2018/08/22/Pittsburgh-diocese-sexual-abuse-claims-David-Zubik-Zappala-josh-Shapiro/stories/201808210258DJRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18028761850444888285noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-87608028963191882732018-08-23T15:37:56.591-04:002018-08-23T15:37:56.591-04:00"[O]ur Popes have insisted that the Holy Ghos..."[O]ur Popes have insisted that the Holy Ghost inspired the Council."<br /><br />Francis insists gossip is the equivalent of terrorism and that man-made climate change is among the most important issues of our time.<br /><br />This proves that popes can insist on all sorts of stupid things. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-88466011264622891722018-08-23T15:02:00.055-04:002018-08-23T15:02:00.055-04:00No sarcasm here, Mark.
I think historically you ar...No sarcasm here, Mark.<br />I think historically you are on to something here.<br />But whether the rot started in 1970, 1968, 1962, 1955 or after the death of Pius X, it did begin in our 20th century plus historical era.<br />You are worthy of respect the way you keep coming back with loyalty to the Pope, regardless of insults and mockery at times, even when it is Pope Francis; such loyalty is worthy of reward because behind and at base that loyalty and love indicates with many people a love of God, a great love of God.<br />But to be honest, Mark, I do pray that you and all people say under 30 live to see a better Pope leading a better Church with MUCH better bishops some time during, say the next c. 50 years.<br /><br />Pax.<br /><br />Gerard.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com