tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post6820857353230399102..comments2024-03-28T09:14:32.869-04:00Comments on southern orders: A BLIND GUIDEFr. Allan J. McDonaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-86157523474258019782022-01-24T19:01:22.589-05:002022-01-24T19:01:22.589-05:00'The TLM for weekdays is very limited' (Fr...'The TLM for weekdays is very limited' (Fr AJM). This statement needs qualification. This week, for instance, has the following:<br /><br />January<br /><br />24 St Timothy, Bishop and Martyr. Mass: Statuit.<br />25 The Conversion of St Paul.<br />26 St Polycarp, Bishop and Martyr. Mass: Sacerdotes.<br />27 St John Chrysostom, Bishop, Confessor and Doctor.<br />28 St Peter Nolasco, Confessor.<br />29 St Francis de Sales, Bishop, Confessor and Doctor.<br /><br />I don't have a daily OF Missal, and would be interested to know if the reading for the feast of the Conversion of St Paul is as long as the Epistle in the older rite (Acts 9:1-22). Apologists for the Novus Ordo are always boasting about the amount of Scripture in the lectionary, yet the compilers couldn't resist shortening passages - this even happens with the Joannine Prologue. In this case the bits subject to optional excision are those relating to John the Baptist. One has a sneaking suspicion that the compilers thought that the average pew-sitter would get the two Johns mixed up! John Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027156691859606002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-62013598362336605902022-01-24T15:27:37.611-05:002022-01-24T15:27:37.611-05:00Fr McDonald,
Assuming that your cathedral EF Sund...Fr McDonald,<br /><br />Assuming that your cathedral EF Sunday Mass is a Missa Cantata, the priest should sing the Epistle and Gospel at the altar, and then read both in the vernacular from the pulpit before the notices and sermon. The idea of a lay commentator overlaying any part of the liturgy with a translation proclaimed towards the people is objectionable, regardless of sex. I understand that it was fashionable in Germany during Low Mass in the 1950s, and very annoying it must have been.<br /><br />In the wake of SP a priest in Cambridge (England) had girls serving his Low EF Mass. Following protests the matter was referred to PCED who ruled against it.<br /><br />In a Sung/Solemn Mass it is those who carry the candles (the acolytes) who serve at the altar, in both forms. Many parishes exclude women and girls from the sanctuary in the OF, and I doubt if it bothers PF in the least. The macho Argentine culture wherein he was raised tends to see the function of women as chiefly decorative.<br /><br />John Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027156691859606002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-50008899263393270982022-01-24T12:40:20.671-05:002022-01-24T12:40:20.671-05:00Perhaps if God were as wise as you he would have c...Perhaps if God were as wise as you he would have created humans in a single gender capable of mating with itself to reproduce.<br /><br />St Michael the archangel defend us in battle....Timothyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16961287155042857795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-87626232392225941942022-01-24T07:21:02.143-05:002022-01-24T07:21:02.143-05:00I think too, and EF Mass goers need to acknowledge...I think too, and EF Mass goers need to acknowledge this, that the pope is put out with the ethos against women given any role in the sanctuary of an EF Mass. For example, at our EF Cathedral’s Sunday Mass, as the priest read quietly the Epistle at the altar, a layman comes from the congregation to read it in the vernacular simultaneously. A woman could easily do this too. <br /><br />Prior to allowing altar girls, our now deceased former bishop stated girls could could carry the cross and candles but could not vest in cassock and surplice. He recommended an alb. Girls could not minister directly to the priest, meaning directly at the altar for handing the water and wine to the celebrant and the lavabo. <br /><br />These rules could easily be applied to the EF Mass. Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-72608294652935432952022-01-24T07:08:27.251-05:002022-01-24T07:08:27.251-05:00The last sentence should be …OF Mass has created g...The last sentence should be …OF Mass has created goes against the common good. Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-4021651121630058062022-01-24T07:06:28.140-05:002022-01-24T07:06:28.140-05:00John, exactly. His interview or at least what was ...John, exactly. His interview or at least what was included in the article is so incoherent. The mess that the OF is from parish to parish and within the same parish is so profound that those who love the EF Mass go because it unites them and does not divide.<br /><br />If we lived in a Church only with the TLM, parishes today and dioceses today would be far more united and responding to the common good as Catholics, no matter their ethnic and language differences, would attend the same type Mass and not be separated by culture or language with their own Mass and in the vernacular with their own music that they like. <br /><br />And with today’s technology, people could have devices to listen to the homily translated to their own language. <br /><br />The individualism and division that the OF Mass has created goods against the common good.Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-68278803274034166082022-01-24T06:48:33.674-05:002022-01-24T06:48:33.674-05:00If I understand ++Arthur correctly, it is 'ind...If I understand ++Arthur correctly, it is 'individualism' (and therefore deplorable) to shun crap music and sloppy celebration, but not 'individualism' to supply the said elements in the first place. Those who attend the EF do so to avoid such 'individualism', yet they are excoriated for their 'individualism' in so doing.<br /><br />Poor old Arthur - he was never the sharpest knife in the box.John Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027156691859606002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-7475879470874052332022-01-24T06:43:15.396-05:002022-01-24T06:43:15.396-05:00TG, the richness of the new Missal also includes t...TG, the richness of the new Missal also includes the expanded lectionary. Perhaps one might argue that this or that passage was not included from the older lectionary. But we are speaking about the Bible. Catholics after Vatican II are much more conversant with the Old Testament than prior to Vatican II. And more aware of the New Testament as well and the encouragement since Vatican II to read and study the Bible as been remarkable. Southern Catholics, I think, were more conscious of the limited knowledge of the Bible they as Catholics had because Protestants were much more fluent and challenged us with that knowledge and we could not respond. <br />In terms of the Missal, I don’t think the prayers at that horrible or different than the Tridentine Missal and there are far more Masses that can be celebrated for particular needs during the week. The TLM for weekdays is very limited .<br />And keep in mind that many Catholics prior to the Council and even today do not bother to bring a missal to Mass with them to see the translations and for daily Mass, even in the TLM, there can be some choices made that they would not know and thus clueless to find out where the Mass is in their own missal. <br />I know from my experience of the TLM since 2007 that many who attend are quite happy not to be able to understand the Latin prayers. They care not to even have a translation of them. <br />Thus the vernacular for at least the changing parts of the Mass is helpful even for the TLM. Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-51836039806244084852022-01-24T05:47:17.242-05:002022-01-24T05:47:17.242-05:00Getting back to the point, in a sense Roche has do...Getting back to the point, in a sense Roche has done us something of a favor--he's said the quiet part out loud. Essentially, he is admitting that the Novus Ordo is a different religion than the Traditional Mass, which is why we have Traditiones Destructovis...the disciples of the failed revolution are using Francis to double-down and quell any last peep of the Traditionalists so they can have their transitory moment of triumph (shades of Pelosism anyone?)<br /><br />I think an argument can be made that the new Mass offers more VARIETY of prayers -- or perhaps it would be better to use the beloved term, "diversity" but I heartily laugh in the face of any assertion that the Novus Ordo's prayers are "richer". Read any of the prayers for the ordinary of the Mass and compare their depth and precision to the Novus Ordo's stripped-down banality. You might as well say that typewriters are more efficient than word processors. <br /><br />The lines are being drawn. Make no mistake: This pope was elected by some very bad people with some very bad motives and he is determined to carry their agenda to its logical end. Thomas Garretthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09538614041116883278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-22494416151802292632022-01-23T19:26:15.249-05:002022-01-23T19:26:15.249-05:00I enjoyed singing the Missa de Angelis along with ...I enjoyed singing the Missa de Angelis along with the choirTJMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07280218128963202431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-32313312436868252792022-01-23T19:16:48.964-05:002022-01-23T19:16:48.964-05:00Father McDonald,
Although I was sorry not to meet...Father McDonald,<br /><br />Although I was sorry not to meet you, I was pleased there is another priest to celebrate the EF.<br /><br />You are blessed to be thereTJMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07280218128963202431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-19829081794844419152022-01-23T16:44:27.833-05:002022-01-23T16:44:27.833-05:00Two of the servers are my parishioners. The older ...Two of the servers are my parishioners. The older man, late 50’s and a young man with longish blond hair. That will be gone soon as he is joining the Air Force and leaving tomorrow to go to San Antonio. I think he has a vocation to the priesthood, but the Air Force will mature him I think. Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-12626053357748284642022-01-23T16:42:08.028-05:002022-01-23T16:42:08.028-05:00Wow! You picked a cold snap! I am scheduled to nex...Wow! You picked a cold snap! I am scheduled to next Sunday! Savannah s a great place. God bless you.Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-81866689185275368872022-01-23T15:51:59.502-05:002022-01-23T15:51:59.502-05:00Father McDonald,
I was is Savannah for my very fi...Father McDonald,<br /><br />I was is Savannah for my very first visit and was deeply disappointed that you were not the celebrant of the EF at the Cathedral today. The music was exquisite and I was struck by how many young families with children were thereTJMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07280218128963202431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-65471204035367596562022-01-23T10:19:11.510-05:002022-01-23T10:19:11.510-05:00"The People of God" are sheep now under ..."The People of God" are sheep now under the control of wolves. Deliver us, O Lord, from this scourge.Williamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08532906102654768874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-70163840367386523422022-01-23T09:41:01.041-05:002022-01-23T09:41:01.041-05:00Roche is a careerist, the lowest form of priestly ...Roche is a careerist, the lowest form of priestly life. He was all on board with sacred tradition when Benedict was pope. Now he has turned on a dime to please Pope Ming the Merciless (hat tip to Father Hunwicke for that appellation)TJMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07280218128963202431noreply@blogger.com