tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post6204580146214327511..comments2024-03-28T20:30:10.681-04:00Comments on southern orders: OF COURSE I AGREE WITH THIS PRIEST BUT I HAVE BECOME SO CYNICAL ABOUT THE MAGISTERIUM, MEANING ALL THE BISHOPS OF THE CHURCH TO INCLUDE THE POPE GIVING A FLYING FLIP OVER ALL THE ACTUAL STATISTICS AND THE ONLY WAY TO TURN THINGS AROUND--WHAT THIS PRIEST WRITES!Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-84233120229679397842017-05-11T19:56:27.161-04:002017-05-11T19:56:27.161-04:00I agree with Joe Potillor. The transcendant was r...I agree with Joe Potillor. The transcendant was removed followed by the culture as noted by Fr. AJM while at the same time there was societal upheaval and breakdown as noted by Fr. MJK. The institution failed itself and many of the souls in its charge while at the same time, societal norms were crumbling - the perfect storm. The beneficiaries of any "We need to" type of exercise will largely be those who remain and to a much lesser extent, those that left. Sadly, pride, personal agendas and commitment to a failed implementation will likely put off any restoration efforts for years, if not generations. ByzRushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11543580976814745615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-73197030520964557752017-05-10T08:44:21.893-04:002017-05-10T08:44:21.893-04:00Aside from Latin and meatless Fridays, we shared t...Aside from Latin and meatless Fridays, we shared the other "distinguishing" elements you mention that gave us Catholic identity were part of most Protestant denominations 50 or 60 or 70 years ago.<br /><br />"Strict sexual ethic, modesty, divorce a scandal, etc" were all part and parcel of Christianity in general.<br /><br />These did not unravel because Vatican Two happened, or because we Catholics gave up a sense of "transcendence" in the liturgy.<br /><br />What happened? Wealth. Material well-being leaves one with little of no sense of dependence on a community, little or no sense of connection with or obligation to a community. Radical individualism has left us fragmented. Racial individualism furthers the divides. Religious individualism (e.g. “total and complete shutdown” of all federal processes allowing followers of Islam into the country until elected leaders can “figure out what is going on.”) etc.<br /><br />Add to this individualism the mobility of families - moving from city to city, state to state - and you further divorce people from forming community and feeling part thereof.Fr. Michael J. Kavanaughnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-39429338785655274742017-05-09T20:51:20.600-04:002017-05-09T20:51:20.600-04:00There's a reason it's nearly impossible to...There's a reason it's nearly impossible to attend the Roman Liturgy as practised in 99.99999% of parishes. This is it. Restoring the transcendent is the first piece, what Fr MJK mentions is the second piece. There is too much of a culture of individualism, in particular in America. <br /><br />May our Loving God have mercy on us. Православный физикhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11313371333531421128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-90099957444224344782017-05-09T18:20:28.092-04:002017-05-09T18:20:28.092-04:00I don't disagree with your assessment, FrMJK, ...I don't disagree with your assessment, FrMJK, but we must acknowledge that what has happened to the Church liturgically and otherwise in the last 50 years has not assisted the Church in swimming against the tide and in fact has caused many Catholics to join the tide. Today there is almost nothing to distinguish a Catholic from Protestants or the prevalent secular mentality which Catholics have been encouraged to amalgamate. Just think of the things unique to Catholicism that kept us strong in the USA, a unique Catholic Culture and pride in it, the Latin Liturgy, meatless Fridays, strict sexual ethic, modesty, divorce a scandal, etc. This has all been dismantled to make us more Protestant and thus more secular. It has failed miserable for us and the Protestants which for the most part have accepted cultural individualism as a sort of identity moniker but in terms of individually embracing the Bible, now have to contend with the Bible being manipulated to satisfy the culture. Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-72824148770471641242017-05-09T17:49:58.271-04:002017-05-09T17:49:58.271-04:00What many "What Happened to the Church?"...What many "What Happened to the Church?" reflections don't talk about is the changes that our culture experienced (and is experiencing) that have had impacts on us far beyond the churches. In the last 50 years virtually every civic organization dedicated to the service of others - which is also the mission of the Church, though in a different way - from Civitan to Lions to Rotary to Jaycees has experienced a precipitous drop in membership or activity. Radical individualism, made possible by an exceptionally high standard (materially) of living makes us feel independent. If I percieve myself to be "well off" I don't need the "transcendent" in whatever form or rite that it is offered. And as long as I maintain that perception, I won't see the need to serve others, since doing so has no effect on my way of life. The best explanation I know of is Robert Bellah's "Habits of the Heart - Individualism and Committment in American Life." It's a bit of a slog to read, but very, very worthwhile.Fr. Michael J. Kavanaughnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-57331304734203051792017-05-09T16:59:13.462-04:002017-05-09T16:59:13.462-04:00The loss of the transcendent is due solely to the ...The loss of the transcendent is due solely to the idea of active participation that was the fundamental idea underpinning all the liturgical reforms of Vatican II. It was not enough for the faithful to sing the Ordinary, if they so pleased, but the entire liturgy had to be changed to make participation of all contrivances easier for the dummest of the faithful. The liturgical reforms were about the people, not perfecting worship of God, and were nothing more than an attempt to sanctify the ivory tower principles of the Liturgical Movement.<br /><br />It did not occur to those liturgical experts living in a world as far removed as imaginable from the average faithful in the pews, that the faithful were not dumb passive spectators as they wished everyone to believe, and that the people came to worship God by praying to Him directly in a holy place, each according to his personal needs and desires of the heart, while leaving the mystical Sacrifice to the priest on their behalf. <br /> Victornoreply@blogger.com