tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post5911615004697466618..comments2024-03-28T12:59:52.914-04:00Comments on southern orders: THE LITTLE MONSTERS OF LIBERAL COMMENTERSFr. Allan J. McDonaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-31562328898441574982016-04-04T13:20:43.903-04:002016-04-04T13:20:43.903-04:00Fr. Kavanaugh, nice to know you're in favor of...Fr. Kavanaugh, nice to know you're in favor of a blog that blocks comments from your brother priests, like Father Fox, who always comes across as eminently reasonable. Scratch a liberal, find a fascist! TJMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-75460636915970665452016-04-02T19:28:58.606-04:002016-04-02T19:28:58.606-04:00TJM - No, I'm not a devotee of PrayTell Blog. ...TJM - No, I'm not a devotee of PrayTell Blog. I read it from time to time and sometimes comment. Mostly I learn from the "elites" who are frequent posters there. They know their history and their theology.<br /><br />I also enjoy the fact that certain people are banned from the blog because they cannot add much, if anything, to an adult conversation, even a conversation that includes full-throated disagreement. It makes for more pleasant and useful reading.<br /><br />And PrayTell frequently publishes posts from the "traditionalist" side of the coin.Fr. Michael J. Kavanaughnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-90289763699413237612016-04-02T12:40:49.923-04:002016-04-02T12:40:49.923-04:00FR. Kavanaugh is the quintessential Pray Sniff dev...FR. Kavanaugh is the quintessential Pray Sniff devoteeTJMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-59767857411473436072016-04-01T22:50:56.364-04:002016-04-01T22:50:56.364-04:00With 20-30 percent of Catholics in the USA attendi...With 20-30 percent of Catholics in the USA attending Sunday Mass, the new English translation is the least of our problems. Back to Pray Tell: it started out as an interesting blog but has recently become an elite closed circle of liberal liturgists all cut from the same cloth. The fact is that they're a big yawn and the less said about them the better. Mother Angelica's legacy will outshine all of their blog members put together, and I can't help but notice a little envy there. I pray for them: the first thing they need to to do is change the name of their blog, one of the worst puns for a blog ever.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-58259954174663763912016-04-01T20:58:26.582-04:002016-04-01T20:58:26.582-04:00Italian phraseology is fine . . . for Italians. N...Italian phraseology is fine . . . for Italians. Not so much for English speakers.Fr. Michael J. Kavanaughnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-39931916700249757772016-04-01T17:26:01.126-04:002016-04-01T17:26:01.126-04:00The left-wing loons who destroyed the sacred litur...The left-wing loons who destroyed the sacred liturgy complain about the new Mass translation. Asking them their opinion on the Mass translation is like asking the Europeans how to avoid starting a World War TJMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-33658583134591082752016-04-01T16:53:53.671-04:002016-04-01T16:53:53.671-04:00It's the Italian phraseology that the Latin ex...It's the Italian phraseology that the Latin exudes and we now have on a glorious retranslated Mass. I love it as it is often how I heard my mother speak English and I do too as well as write it, that is English the way you highlight the translation which is glorious!<br /><br />But apart from that only academics and religious professionals complain about it! Not those grandmotherly Catholics Pope Francis so admires. No one on the simple periphery is complaining just the religeous professionals and we know how the Holy Father feels about the Pharisees.Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-58271778306279749392016-04-01T16:41:04.310-04:002016-04-01T16:41:04.310-04:00Fr. Fox - I, too, attended presentations on the Ne...Fr. Fox - I, too, attended presentations on the New Translation. Many present did express concerns over 1) the rules for translations as found in LA, and 2) the resulting muddled English texts we have now. One priest noted that we were all going to sound like an admixture of Hyacinthe Bucket and Yoda. <br /><br />The ideas are fine, the expression of those ideas is, I think, very much wanting in many cases. Throughout the Easter season the prefaces speak of our being "overcome with Easter Joy." "Overcome" may well be a literal translation of the Latin, but it misses the mark, I think, is describing our state.<br /><br />Also, this "participation at the altar." "Participation" is an odd way to speak of what we are doing at mass, what we are doing in communion.<br /><br />And then there's the collect for the 15th Sunday in Ordinary Time: "O God who show the light of your truth to those who go astray, so that they may return to the right path, give all who for the faith they profess are accounted Christians the grace to reject whatever is contrary to the name of Christ and to strive after all that does it honor."<br /><br />"...give all who for the faith they profess are accounted Christian..." is much more elegantly and understandably rendered "...give all who profess the Christian faith..." or "...give all who hold the faith of Christ..." or some other from.<br /><br />These are but a few examples. In many places the rules of LA have resulted in disjointed, run-on English sentences. As Fr Sidney Griffiths, I believe, has noted, men of exceptionally high education and erudition complain to him that, halfway through a text, they come to the point of having no idea what is being prayed.Fr. Michael J. Kavanaughnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-29532323831764643982016-04-01T13:55:18.825-04:002016-04-01T13:55:18.825-04:00Anonymous, that's why I call it "PraySnif...Anonymous, that's why I call it "PraySniff." They are exhibit A for the sickness and lack of charity which pervades "liberal" catholicism. TJMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-3484680174776913872016-04-01T11:57:55.928-04:002016-04-01T11:57:55.928-04:00I just saw the april fool's post at praytell, ...I just saw the april fool's post at praytell, it's jaw droppingly catty. It basically implies that Mother Angelica's approach to Catholicism is something Trump would like. And that the shrine there is in the style that Trump likes. Ouch. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-73154229577630364962016-04-01T11:39:24.561-04:002016-04-01T11:39:24.561-04:00Anonymous:
I will happily tell the rest of my exp...Anonymous:<br /><br />I will happily tell the rest of my experience of PrayTell's dishonesty if you wish. Simply ask.Fr Martin Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01375628123126091747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-37996800180167512362016-04-01T11:38:28.651-04:002016-04-01T11:38:28.651-04:00TJM:
Yes, that sort of interaction is rather typi...TJM:<br /><br />Yes, that sort of interaction is rather typical. <br /><br />When the new translation of the Missal was being introduced a few years back, the diocese here spent a lot of time with seminars for the priests to review the texts. And I recall one priest at one of the sessions venting fury about the new translation. <br /><br />But the funny thing was, his complaint was not -- repeat, not -- that the new translation had either misrepresented the meaning of the underlying Latin prayer; nor that the resulting English was too muddled or difficult to say. No, his complaint was the ideas expressed by the prayer. They were too medieval! Did he allege that this was a misrepresentation of the actual content of the prayer in Latin. No, he did not. On the contrary, <i>that</i> was his complaint: the prior translation had obscured -- and thus, <i>changed</i> -- the meaning of the prayer, and that's what he wanted to continue!<br /><br />Similarly, the actual text of Vatican II is not what's important to so many of these folks. They want what they want; if Vatican II can be made to support the agenda, so much the better; but if not, as your interlocutor said, "those provisions have been superseded." Brilliant!Fr Martin Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01375628123126091747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-7153152281181173032016-04-01T09:52:28.909-04:002016-04-01T09:52:28.909-04:00Anonymous, of course I wouldn't say Pray Sniff...Anonymous, of course I wouldn't say Pray Sniff. When are you going to apologize to Fathers McDonald and Fox for your falsehoods about them?<br /><br />Father Fox, I remember one "liberal" priest when I cornered him about the actual language of Sacrosanctum Concilium, e.g. Latin Mass is to be preserved, the faithful are to learn to sing in Latin the parts of the Mass pertinent to them, he told me quite confidently that those provisions had been superseded. When I asked for his supporting authority he just got angry and walked away. TJMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-31549373917018758422016-03-31T18:16:41.765-04:002016-03-31T18:16:41.765-04:00TJM said:
...or an arrogant attitude that only th...TJM said:<br /><br /><i>...or an arrogant attitude that only they they possess the truth.</i><br /><br />Bingo.<br /><br />Father A. at PrayTell is always cutting off discussion of the merits of the actual implementation of Vatican II, and of what ought to be the right approach to interpreting Vatican II. When I've seen him do so, he uses one of two reasons. One is that the discussion becomes tiresome; and, I agree, it can. But the other reason he gives is some variant of, it's well established that Vatican II means such-and-such, or "that ship has sailed," which are just another way of saying, no one at his blog is going to offer any alternative view on that subject. Of course, the blog belongs to him and whoever he shares control with, so he gets to make the rules. But it is as you say.Fr Martin Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01375628123126091747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-42599280932319241102016-03-31T17:05:31.383-04:002016-03-31T17:05:31.383-04:00I suggest you were cut off from PrayTell because y...I suggest you were cut off from PrayTell because you say things like "Pray Sniff."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-87898123492918489602016-03-31T15:52:40.947-04:002016-03-31T15:52:40.947-04:00Anonymous, so you are calling Fathers McDonald and...Anonymous, so you are calling Fathers McDonald and Fox liars, Well the liar is you. I was cut off from PraySniff because I suggested the Propers replace the 4 Hymn sandwich TJMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-36426250740665530592016-03-31T14:48:04.118-04:002016-03-31T14:48:04.118-04:00Traditionalists are not shut out of the comments s...Traditionalists are not shut out of the comments section on the PrayTell blog. The suggestion that they are is simply not true.<br /><br />Nastiness is shut out, whether it comes from the traditionalists or the progressives. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-76665508456182091572016-03-31T14:19:33.686-04:002016-03-31T14:19:33.686-04:00Mother Angelica of course, not Mother Teresa.Mother Angelica of course, not Mother Teresa.Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-25831503867411441222016-03-31T14:18:38.484-04:002016-03-31T14:18:38.484-04:00Fr. Fox, my biggest gripe with their comments poli...Fr. Fox, my biggest gripe with their comments policy is that Fr. A shuts down conversations if they become traditional. In fact the traditional comments and the bantering back and forth is what made the blog interesting to read. Today with its sterile progressive ideology strictly enforced it is as blah and sterile progressive liturgies are. <br /><br />The fact that positive comments concerning Mother Teresa were removed as well as those that denigrated her tells you how insecure the blog moderator is when there is anything said positive about either a traditionally celebrated OF Mass, or God forbid, the EF Mass. <br /><br />I agree, I expect more from traditionalists in terms of defending the pope whoever His Holiness is. When Pope Benedict was Pope and the new and glorious English translation was revealed and promulgated, the nastiness towards Pope Benedict at Praytell was overwhelming and the comments were left to stand since Fr. A had an ax to grind. It was very sad and I felt that if the shoe were on the other foot traditionalists would still defend the pope. In fact I stated in one comment at Praytell years back when they were bashing the Holy Father that I would stand behind any pope, not just a Benedict type, even if I didn't appreciate all that the pope was doing. <br /><br />We who are traditionalist in the true sense must defend the reigning pope no matter what although constructive, respectful disagreements can be made in the right way.Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-61099247089461992732016-03-31T13:32:17.256-04:002016-03-31T13:32:17.256-04:00Father Fox,
On college campuses today they are ca...Father Fox,<br /><br />On college campuses today they are called "snowflakes." I have generally found liberals to be nastier, unwilling to debate the substance but very quick to call you a moron or a Nazi. This behavior is fueled either by a lack of confidence in their own positions or an arrogant attitude that only they they possess the truth. I recall that it was either Gallup or Pew Research a year or so back concluded that so-called liberals are nastier on blogs than conservatives. TJMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-19395354919690463622016-03-31T12:33:30.538-04:002016-03-31T12:33:30.538-04:00Father:
Thanks for this post. And you are correct...Father:<br /><br />Thanks for this post. And you are correct, this nastiness is not limited to the "progressives." I have seen some sites, as we all have, where the vitriol toward the Holy Father makes my blood run cold. Sorry to say, I expect more from those who claim to be totally traditional; because so many self-described "progressives" make it very clear they have no use for hierarchy or deference to authority anyway. But not so traditionalists.<br /><br />The thing is, the comments section of any site is a kind of mirror. It should tell the proprietors of the site something about the fruit their work is bearing. After years of reading the National (so called) Catholic Reporter online, I have formed the conclusion that its commenters are overwhelmingly either not Catholic at all, or only have a tenuous relationship to the Church. <br /><br />Now, PrayTell is a special case. The editorial decisions of that blog are highly questionable. Anyone who pays attention can see that comments are deleted not simply because they are offensive, but simply because their point of view is unwelcome. I know from personal experience of a situation in which comments were "closed" -- only to have them reopened precisely to admit a comment that was attacking someone -- me -- and then the comments were promptly closed, again. And I've seen them closed to prevent comments that expressed positive sentiments or rebuttals they didn't want. Fr Martin Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01375628123126091747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-82482215047576858742016-03-31T11:15:10.670-04:002016-03-31T11:15:10.670-04:00Fr. Kavanaugh, thanks for the laugh. You are exhib...Fr. Kavanaugh, thanks for the laugh. You are exhibit ATJMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-68902866874638098772016-03-31T10:59:32.758-04:002016-03-31T10:59:32.758-04:00TIM - This is not about what you or anyone else t...TIM - This is not about what you or anyone else thinks a member of the clergy "deserves." It is not about your questionable judgment regarding their intellectual dishonesty, a judgment that may very well be wrong. <br /><br />If Fr. McDonald is going to have rules and, then, blatantly disregard those rules, he has little space to criticise other blog managers for what they do in terms of posting or not posting comments.Fr. Michael J. Kavanaughnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-64220007826765927492016-03-31T10:21:44.430-04:002016-03-31T10:21:44.430-04:00Fr. Kavanaugh, alas, some members of the clergy ha...Fr. Kavanaugh, alas, some members of the clergy have earned that disrespect because they are intellectually dishonest and engage in the very antics they condemn. I find it amusing that a priest can trash the Pope, their bishop, etc., but DON"T you DARE let me have it when it is justly deserved! TJMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-53952246470318084342016-03-31T08:40:01.815-04:002016-03-31T08:40:01.815-04:00Fr. McDonald, you regularly approve for posting co...Fr. McDonald, you regularly approve for posting comments that are "insulting to others," that are nothing but "name calling," and that show disrespect to clergy and laity. This, in spite of the fact that you state explicitly that these "will not be published."<br /><br />How do you, then, have the gall to say that you find it "shameful" that PrayTell, or any other blog, moderates the comments that are offered for publication.Fr. Michael J. Kavanaughnoreply@blogger.com