tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post4795191927828614853..comments2024-03-28T11:36:20.629-04:00Comments on southern orders: IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE ANNULMENT PROCEDURE STRENGHTENS LOCAL BISHOPS AND THEIR AUTHORITY OVER AND ABOVE BISHOPS' CONFERENCESFr. Allan J. McDonaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comBlogger56125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-9533403196179566632015-09-11T10:08:36.971-04:002015-09-11T10:08:36.971-04:00I feel compelled to point out that Eusebius of Nic...I feel compelled to point out that Eusebius of Nicomedia was a bishop.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00554830859411216515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-12095963700609910292015-09-11T10:00:04.908-04:002015-09-11T10:00:04.908-04:00Fr. Mike,
I believe all that the Catholic Church...Fr. Mike, <br /><br />I believe all that the Catholic Church teaches as explicitly written in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the creeds, and the councils. But I'm with Calvin in pointing out that individual bishops can (and have) over the years erred in both factual prudential decisions and in their preaching about faith and morals.<br /><br />So I think we ought to obey priests and bishops as we ought to obey our own parents and cut them all as much slack as we can, to the point that they cross the threshold into egregious error or command us to do something sinful.<br /><br />If my pastor wants me to sing in the choir rather than teach CCD, then I'm not going to disobey him by insisting on teaching CCD. I MAY just not sing so as to avoid annoying the whole community or I may just sing 'sotto voce' for the sake of at least being where he wants me to be for whatever reason.<br /><br />If on the other hand, my pastor claims from the pulpit that Hillary Klinton is a saint, Reagan was a warmonger, guns are icky (unless safely in the hands of police) and abortion, while lamentable perhaps, is the price we must pay to make the welfare trains run on time, I'm going to challenge him on it. <br /><br />I'm not going to make a scene though. I would remonstrate with him privately if at all possible one on one. <br /><br />Those are - in my mind- just errors of judgment having little bearing on the Faith.<br /><br />If my pastor stands up and says in a homily that Jesus didn't know he was God and maybe he didn't really rise from the dead after all, I am going to stand up during that scandalous homily and call him on it. To sit silently by while scandal is given to the children and heresy propounded to the whole congregation is to be tacitly in approval (and to be a gutless coward). I'm a sinner, but I have decided to no longer be a gutless coward. Zero tolerance for heresy - and that goes for my bishop too (though, fortunately our bishop is about as solid as they come.)<br /><br />Otherwise, why bother teaching the laity to think for ourselves if we are not to bear witness to the truth and defend before error or heresy coming from any direction?<br /><br />If I say "My opinion as Jusadbellum is that everyone ought to own a machinegun" It's an opinion that anyone may disagree with. But if I declare "it is the Gospel of Christ and the Church's infallible teaching that every homeowner must own a machine gun" I am in error and anyone ought to tell me I'm wrong - that there's no such teaching.<br /><br />So a priest believes in global warming...well that's nice. But it's completely besides the point. He might also like the New York Yankees too. But if he believes contrary to the Church in faith and morals, then that suddenly is a challenge to every believer and cannot be taken sitting down and silent.<br /><br />If the Pope tells us to forgive sinners - that sounds perfectly legit. If the Pope sorta,kinda, intimates in a round about fashion that golly gee, maybe sodomy isn't a sin after all and neither is masturbation.... well he's going off the reservation and needs fraternal correction. He's still the Pope, I'm still a sinful lay man, He still has all his other power and authority and I still have none other than my faith.... but he'd still be wrong and I'd still be conscience bound to defend the deposit of faith.Jusadbellumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-18001522366620696852015-09-11T05:43:30.402-04:002015-09-11T05:43:30.402-04:00I reject no doctrine of the Catholic Church nor an...I reject no doctrine of the Catholic Church nor any infallible teaching of the Church. Bishops are fallible and very often, too.Calvin of Hipponoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-83328336512728202242015-09-10T22:07:07.953-04:002015-09-10T22:07:07.953-04:00Calvin/Gene - You, also, are not competent to judg...Calvin/Gene - You, also, are not competent to judge the bishops who, by the charism granted them at their episcopal ordination, are made the teachers of the Faith. You reject their teaching on a regular basis, because it does not match your own peculiarly Protestant/Congregationalist proclivities.<br /><br />Fr. Michael J. Kavanaughnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-53353775187789082922015-09-09T21:46:24.518-04:002015-09-09T21:46:24.518-04:00Thanks Lefeb, I couldn't have said it better m...Thanks Lefeb, I couldn't have said it better myself.<br /><br />Gnostics believed in "secret" knowledge that only the elite initiates were "in" on while the rest of the hoi poloi were left with simpleton parables and faith. So only the initiates can say whether Jesus is divine or not, or whether contraception is a sin or not because golly it's all sooooooo difficult and sooooooo hard to read the scripture, read the early Church councils, the early Church fathers, the saints, mystics, and great popes. <br /><br />In the name of overthrowing the great authorities of the past they set up their own parallel magisteria of the present. Just because you do it in German doesn't automatically make it more accurate or smart. <br /><br />How many of their theologians led vast numbers of their Europeans TO the faith vs. led them and their disciples right out of the faith? There's wisdom in looking at their fruits not just their claims.<br /><br />If priests and bishops govern dying parishes and dioceses, if their seminaries are empty of seminarians.... if their local Church is mute before the culture and has nothing challenging to say except the most bland of PC gibberish...then they've not much fruit to show for their erudition (or claims thereof).<br /><br />So again, how is it that we have 200+ Catholic universities in the USA but a single one, FUS in Ohio routinely turns out 10% of the entire country's ordinands? How is it possible that the erudite, brilliant, "authorities" you defer to to figure out what is and is not dogma can't manage to fill seminaries? If the Holy Spirit is what illumines their minds where is the life?<br /><br />St. Theresa of the Little Flower is a Doctor of the Church. Last time I checked she wasn't a theologian, bishop, or cardinal. She didn't study at the Greg or NAC. But her life produces abundant fruit years after her death. Did she need to wait for some mumbling theologian before speaking of the Faith?Jusadbellumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-11625554248924903052015-09-09T14:48:14.264-04:002015-09-09T14:48:14.264-04:00Competency... in the RCC's hierarchy...??? Sur...Competency... in the RCC's hierarchy...??? Surely you jest!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00554830859411216515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-39017770853199750032015-09-09T14:23:17.664-04:002015-09-09T14:23:17.664-04:00Be Used, one does not have to be a scholar to know...Be Used, one does not have to be a scholar to know when something contradicts doctrine. Besides, those who are supposedly "authorized and competent" have not done such a sterling job of it over the last 50 years.Calvin of Hipponoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-43212913151346731352015-09-09T14:20:44.828-04:002015-09-09T14:20:44.828-04:00"Jusadbellum, I don't think you are autho..."Jusadbellum, I don't think you are authorized or competent to determine whether or not something does or does not contradict doctrine or dogma."<br /><br />I guess you can't point to the doctrine or dogma that says that Jus is not authorized or competent to determine whether something is doctrine or dogma since it would violate your own principle that only certain people are authorized or competent to determine whether something is doctrine or dogma.<br /><br />The Church's teaching is not hiding from us, you gnostic.Lefebvriannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-1953982139993333112015-09-09T14:15:06.611-04:002015-09-09T14:15:06.611-04:00Jus, let's consider this from the standpoint o...Jus, let's consider this from the standpoint of the actual Catholic believer.<br /><br />When I was married, I was an atheist. According to this pope, my marriage is essentially voidable at will by either party. Under these "rules," I could go to the cathedral a couple blocks away and get an annulment rather based on my "lack of faith" at the time of the vows. <br /><br />The only thing that makes my marriage Sacramental right now is that I don't do that. That is not reality -- either some is or something is not. Sacraments cannot be voidable since they are reality.<br /><br />The pope's actions are a slap in the face to faithful Catholics.Lefebvriannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-23947219690125088352015-09-09T14:08:43.420-04:002015-09-09T14:08:43.420-04:00Nothing has ever stopped those intent on securing ...Nothing has ever stopped those intent on securing an annulment from lying. They lied under the previous regulations and they will lie under the new regulations.<br /><br />The automatic appeal had existed for only about 35 years. It was not necessary for a very long time, yet the anullment process worked reasonably well.<br /><br />Jusadbellum, I don't think you are authorized or competent to determine whether or not something does or does not contradict doctrine or dogma. That's why I rely on those who are for accurate info.<br />Bemusednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-72975018025796601042015-09-09T12:51:44.265-04:002015-09-09T12:51:44.265-04:00Lefebvrian.
Nothing is stopping Catholics from di...Lefebvrian.<br /><br />Nothing is stopping Catholics from divorce right now. Certainly not the sexual culture. <br /><br />In Canon Law, marriage is by far the most complex subject. I think the code is like 30 pages for every other sacrament but something like 300 pages for marriage since there are so many different scenarios and factors to take into consideration.<br /><br />What the vast majority of Catholics are is Low Information People. Most lay people have only a basic grasp of the faith. It was the culture of Christendom and our ethnic tribe that did most of the heavy lifting in the past. Strip those cultural props away that informed children of the proper roles of men and women, husbands and wives, what constituted a gentleman and a lady.... and you suddenly have a very thin reed indeed to hang your faith on. <br /><br />With this backdrop, I think the problem is not so much about abuse on the backside of husbands unilaterally seeking divorce and remarriage to chase trophy wives or mistresses, but both parties bringing their mostly secular mindset to the wedding (contracepting, fornicating ahead of time...) and then when things break down, just leaving the faith entirely to go marry "again" outside the Church. It would seem to me that we're talking tens of millions of people just in the US in this category.<br /><br />If they come to realize that a decree of nullity means they never had the sacrament to begin with - lack of form - they could see that the Church does say they can receive communion, that they are free to marry (not 're-marry) and this time get it right.... that their children aren't bastards, etc. I think there's so much confusion surrounding the issue (and almost complete ignorance of NFP etc.) that this may very well start the ball rolling to a re-evangelization or a first evangelization if we play our cards right and not cede the field to the modernists who will jump at every chance to get their hooks in.<br /><br />Half the battle is just showing up. Right now the modernist show up. They contribute huge sums to foundations and then give scholarships to up and coming church professionals to attend seminars, workshops, and retreats sponsored by other modernists with the idea of penetrating the bureaucracy.... and we? We sit back and complain but don't do likewise!<br /><br />Volunteer for your parish...get involved.... and soon you'll be in a place to effect practical, actual change in your corner of the Church. Jusadbellumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-71730363512629512692015-09-09T11:08:13.418-04:002015-09-09T11:08:13.418-04:00Yes, Jusad. As I said above, by their logic all do...Yes, Jusad. As I said above, by their logic all doctrine is up for grabs. But, they do not believe the articles of the Creed anyway, most of them.Calvin of Hipponoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-26600804545260098822015-09-09T10:26:05.340-04:002015-09-09T10:26:05.340-04:00Jus, I am a lawyer, and I cant tell you that one t...Jus, I am a lawyer, and I cant tell you that one thing that works against "justice" is speed. In other words, eliminating the automatic appeals will, in practice, mean that more mistakes are made. When the mistake involves an erroneous determination with regard to the validity of a Sacrament, the stakes are very high. Even if it was a good idea to streamline the process, doing so at this time lacks prudence.<br /><br />Still, I am more reacting against the reports of the expansion of the grounds for annulment than I am the tweaking of the process. Since it seems that the subjective intention of one of the parties, viewed with the benefits of hindsight, will now be sufficient grounds for a declaration of nullity, I see little practical difference between these tweaks and divorce. <br /><br />Any subsequent subjective disruption to the vows can now justify the declaration of nullity post hoc -- for example, if a husband wants an annulment, he can simply leave his wife and claim that he didn't enter the marriage with an understanding of its permanence (due to bad catechesis or maybe her family forced him or maybe he never intended to be faithful or maybe he didn't want children or maybe he didn't want more than one child). What's stopping him from doing this? Lefebvriannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-75448414829323192822015-09-09T09:48:05.877-04:002015-09-09T09:48:05.877-04:00Bemused, if a Catholic bishop, canonist, sociologi...Bemused, if a Catholic bishop, canonist, sociologist or random theologian contradicts Church doctrine or dogma then even a school boy can take them to the wood shed. <br /><br />But here's the thing.... when was the last time you heard one of these so-called "elites" actually making an argument for why their novel teaching is in fact in continuity with the deposit of faith and hence is obligatory to every believer to hold fast to? Don't we instead get a mass of obfuscation, equivocal language, vague, non-committal arguments that allow people to have their cake and eat it too?<br /><br />Take your pick among the elites' statements in favor of the sexual or socialist revolutions and what you'll find are arguments that could just as easily be turned around on them. Either they're too stupid to realize that if their criteria for judgment against the deposit of the faith is correct then the deposit of faith itself may be dispensed with...or they realize it but figure it would be a bridge too far for most people to immediately jump. But if we can dispense with Catholic doctrine on marriage and sexuality then we certainly can jettison Catholic doctrine on Christ's divinity and the hierarchical structure of the Church and what sin is and what redemption is.....<br /><br />The problem many of them have is a lack of philosophical and logical rigor - which is why we no longer see "anathema sit" statements. They don't make curt statements that pin themselves down. They hide in ambiguity and a fog of plausible deniability.<br /><br />It's a winning move only against others who aren't trained in the Philosophical and logical art of thinking.<br /><br />Against actual thinkers they're revealed to be both naked and stupid pretty quickly.Jusadbellumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-39916511925832346002015-09-09T07:35:08.804-04:002015-09-09T07:35:08.804-04:00Lordy, lordy, folks on other forums are now referr...Lordy, lordy, folks on other forums are now referring to this as "Henry VIII's revenge. Man, the entertainment value of this Pope is reaching unprecedented levels.Calvin of Hipponoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-88219903151147145742015-09-09T07:32:01.725-04:002015-09-09T07:32:01.725-04:00Indeed, Bemused, you should be thankful for such h...Indeed, Bemused, you should be thankful for such high-level resources, lifting you from the depths of the cave and guiding you through the swamp of ignorance. However, since you reference this blog as "backwater," perhaps there are other blogs where you would be more comfortable and might find the more "hip" and au courant intellectual companionship which you seek.Calvin of Hipponoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-39413738835644591662015-09-09T07:09:40.061-04:002015-09-09T07:09:40.061-04:00It's oh so comforting to know that I can point...It's oh so comforting to know that I can point my browser to this backwater blog, ignore the Catholic bishops, the Catholic canonists, the sociologists, and every other member of any "elite" group whatsoever, and find out all I need to know about history, theology, canon law, biology, numerology, etc from Calvin (G) of Hippeaux and LeFebrian.<br /><br />Deo Gracias.Bemusednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-42966509463310565952015-09-09T06:14:48.714-04:002015-09-09T06:14:48.714-04:00Militia, you really need to develop a sense of hum...Militia, you really need to develop a sense of humor...I mean like really soon. And, where is slander of the Pope?Calvin of Hipponoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-30431124699749713252015-09-09T00:44:07.864-04:002015-09-09T00:44:07.864-04:00CofH, did you ever stop to think that that could h...CofH, did you ever stop to think that that could happen to you too? Father has warned you about the mortal sin of calumny on here numerous times, but you don't listen and instead continue to slander our Holy Father. Militia Immaculatahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15021417068774633653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-80915627496520663662015-09-08T22:09:34.451-04:002015-09-08T22:09:34.451-04:00Who was the commediene who used to do the gag like...Who was the commediene who used to do the gag like "Momma always told me, if you don't have nothing good to say about someone....come and whisper all about it to me".<br /><br />So instead of 'yadda, yadda, yadda" GOB should waste his time venting to us cobs or morons or whatever we call ourselves on this blog. <br /><br />Maybe it's code for "whatevah"? <br /><br />Lefeb, I don't think the change to the annulment procedure is about "letting" people commit adultery. They're cutting out the automatic appeal - if the decree of nullity is contested either party can still appeal to the Roman Rota.<br /><br />Now, the thing I think we need to keep in mind is that the Church is universal - this thing is for EVERYONE not just Americans or Westerners. We have our culture war here but the Nigerians or Chinese or Brazilians.... what they're dealing with is poverty and a less capable social support network - so some woman who is in the limbo between a marriage that may or may not be a genuine sacrament is not as secure as one might be here... thus speeding things up makes sense. <br /><br />But to go from this to accepting adultery (much less sodomy) as acceptable is a whole nuther issue entirely. Jusadbellumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-61472892546125484742015-09-08T19:48:36.645-04:002015-09-08T19:48:36.645-04:00When Gob stands before Christ in judgement, and he...When Gob stands before Christ in judgement, and he will, you know, I'm sure he will be reciting all of his good works. Won't it be funny when he is cast, headlong to bottomless perdition and he hears the great forged door of Eternity slam shut, and the rattle of the chain, and the snap of the lock...and God's last words to him...yadda, yadda, yadda.Calvin of Hipponoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-79906662801193090832015-09-08T19:33:17.339-04:002015-09-08T19:33:17.339-04:00The Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary
In Genesi...<br />The Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary<br /><br />In Genesis it is written that God said: Let there be light, and there was light.God saw that the light was good. God then separated the light from the darkness. "<br />Now the darkness that God separated from the light was due to sin and it effects, brought into existence by the Fallen Angels. The darkness that mankind was to subsequently reside in was due to the the Sin of Adam. God, having created man on the Sixth day, and having completed His Creation, rested on the Seventh day.<br />Now God knowing His Divine plan, saw present before His Divine Majesty the Eighth day in which the light of the Eternal Sun would rise in splendor on that Glorious morn of the New Day of Salvation. Christ, the Son of God, would come forth as the Divine Light in triumph over the darkness of sin and death, and He would in time rise and come forth from the darkness of a cave.The Son of God came into our existence, the Light of the New Day of Salvation, in order to bring man out of the darkness of the Night of Sin. On that Eighth Day, the New Covenant would fulfill the Old Covenant.<br />Now, between the night and the coming of a new day is the twilight. The Blessed Virgin was that twilight of that glorious dawn from whom forth would come the Light of Christ. Just as the first light of dawn heralds the appearance of the sun from which it comes forth, so the Blessed Virgin was that first light of the Dawn of Redemption from which the Son of God would spring forth. <br />So it is fitting that we honor the Blessed Virgin's nativity on the eight day of our present calendar which supersedes those calendars which came before it. It is fitting that we honor her nativity on the eight day, she who was chosen by God to be His Divinely ordained means to bring the Light of God to the Eight day, the Day of our Salvation. <br /><br />Georgenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-67924750028210466152015-09-08T19:19:03.870-04:002015-09-08T19:19:03.870-04:00....yadda yadda yadda........yadda yadda yadda....gobnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-60739977724133187722015-09-08T18:20:12.251-04:002015-09-08T18:20:12.251-04:00Jus, the entire point of all of this is to keep pe...Jus, the entire point of all of this is to keep people from going to hell. I agree with you that we should be making strides in that direction everyday -- we search work out our own salvation so that those around us might also be saved. <br /><br />Does allowing people to divorce and enter into adulterous relationships help them to avoid hell or set them on the path toward it? <br /><br />Unfortunately, we do not live in times where we have a reasonable evangelical hope for people's salvation. In such times as our's, realism about the state of affairs should give us evangelical zeal. This is especially true since most of the clerics seem to have lost the faith, as shown by their quickness to capitulate to any and every worldly whim demonstrates. We have to make up for their failings now more than ever and also evangelize them in hopes of saving their souls as well. Lefebvriannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-34084916443791910532015-09-08T18:08:46.095-04:002015-09-08T18:08:46.095-04:00Well, Fr., you know how it is...money talks, doctr...Well, Fr., you know how it is...money talks, doctrine walks. Total Depravity does come in handy sometimes when reviewing the behavior of our fellow man. LOL!Calvin of Hipponoreply@blogger.com