tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post4684356150590579633..comments2024-03-28T12:59:52.914-04:00Comments on southern orders: CHANT AND CONTEMPORARY LITURGICAL MUSIC COMBINED: DOES IT WORK?Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-74829460063705431632015-12-19T09:22:45.841-05:002015-12-19T09:22:45.841-05:00Fr, since you allow Gob to make fun of Semper Fi, ...Fr, since you allow Gob to make fun of Semper Fi, you should allow me to say that he is not worthy to even use the phrase. Why do you protect losers like him?Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-66496422332434838822015-12-18T17:53:31.229-05:002015-12-18T17:53:31.229-05:00Jusad: The "if" part is a bit snarky...b...Jusad: The "if" part is a bit snarky...but, in the spirit of the season, I'll let it by without further comment. Merry Christmas. (FYI, the "I" in "if" should be upper case.)gobnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-29716306829208322932015-12-18T10:36:42.057-05:002015-12-18T10:36:42.057-05:00Merry Christmas Gob.
if you are a praying person,...Merry Christmas Gob.<br /><br />if you are a praying person, remember me before the Lord this Christmas.Jusadbellumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-3602551544308996072015-12-18T10:34:31.819-05:002015-12-18T10:34:31.819-05:00Eugene, it wounded me to my core.....maybe even to...Eugene, it wounded me to my core.....maybe even to my Corps. Semper Fi.gobnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-16407930307127174122015-12-18T06:25:24.360-05:002015-12-18T06:25:24.360-05:00"Cruel remark?" LOL!"Cruel remark?" LOL!Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-89731281007855210332015-12-17T21:45:38.054-05:002015-12-17T21:45:38.054-05:00Most of the time though, Gob the slinky throws you...Most of the time though, Gob the slinky throws you down the stairs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-8318184969996150052015-12-17T20:56:04.980-05:002015-12-17T20:56:04.980-05:00I wish all of the people here a blessed, holy and ...I wish all of the people here a blessed, holy and happy Christmas.gobnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-58165374063409700322015-12-17T19:08:27.790-05:002015-12-17T19:08:27.790-05:00Gob is just contrary. Let's hope he lightens ...Gob is just contrary. Let's hope he lightens up for Christmas or come to think of it he will probably find something negative about that too?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-88770797591625323692015-12-17T19:04:49.505-05:002015-12-17T19:04:49.505-05:00Father McDonald,
From experience: I am part of t...Father McDonald,<br /><br />From experience: I am part of the schola in my parish. We used to sing for six years at a Ordinary form Mass with chanted Latin propers and ordinary, and traditional hymn for the recessional. At the beginning we were told to use contemporary music for the Processional and Recessional. It didn't work. In fact, the Pastoral Administrator who had mandated the contemporary music, had us drop the contemporary music, because "it didn't fit" with the Gregorian Chant. We dropped it for the Six years we sang the chant Mass. We now are singing at a Monthly EF Mass and have moved on. CPT Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09154486079844169215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-76844110485304727202015-12-17T18:54:49.276-05:002015-12-17T18:54:49.276-05:00If you would review all of my posts, I'm sure ...If you would review all of my posts, I'm sure that you would find many that would cause you to regret this cruel remark.gobnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-9371990444787401842015-12-17T17:43:34.161-05:002015-12-17T17:43:34.161-05:00Gob is kinda' pitiful, but he is fun...sort of...Gob is kinda' pitiful, but he is fun...sort of like a slinky...useless but fun to throw down the stairs.Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-35459105268817020152015-12-17T17:01:39.037-05:002015-12-17T17:01:39.037-05:00There is one parish in the Archdiocese of Baltimor...There is one parish in the Archdiocese of Baltimore (Nativity, Timonium) that does both contemporary (evangelical praise music) and gregorian chant (they usually have the Sanctus and Agnus Dei in Latin) for their Sunday Masses. It seems to work for them, and it is a very flourishing parish. You can find videos of their liturgies online.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-59769856276068546022015-12-17T14:58:04.573-05:002015-12-17T14:58:04.573-05:00I'm trying to think of anything constructive, ...I'm trying to think of anything constructive, even if contrary, that gob has ever posted here.Rood Screenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09816036539243214384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-34915526277650891802015-12-17T14:03:26.494-05:002015-12-17T14:03:26.494-05:00The nearest thing to genuine folk music would be a...The nearest thing to genuine folk music would be a Gregorian Office hymn, of which there are many, some very well known like Vexilla Regis, Veni Creator and Ave Maris Stella. Consider:-<br /><br />1. They are strophic. The melody of each verse is the same; the words are different.<br />2. The words are more important than the music.<br />3. They are monodic, not harmonized or polyphonic.<br />4. They are usually sung unaccompanied.<br />5. They are modal, not tonal.<br />6. They are in free rhythm.<br />7. The melodies belonged to an oral tradition before being written down.<br /><br />All the above apply to (genuine) folk music. In the 1960s popular song-writers were influenced by this older musical tradition. Paul McCartney's 'Eleanor Rigby' is in the Phrygian mode (Gregorian mode 3). An Irish or Scottish folk musician would find himself in very familiar territory singing the Gloria from Mass IX (Cum iubilo) since it is in mode 7 (Mixolydian), the bagpipe scale. So Chant and certain types of popular music should in theory be able to coexist. So why is pop-derived church music so dire?<br /><br />Performances of the famous Monteverdi Vespers of 1610 usually alternate chant with elaborate vocal and instrumental music which would have seemed startlingly modern to contemporary ears (Victoria's Requiem, written only five years earlier, seems to belong to a different century). Does it work, and would it have been performed in this way 400 years ago? Opinions differ.<br /><br />On a different subject, why is 'gob' setting himself up as corrector of other people's typos? As for prepositions, one cannot end a Latin sentence with one, but English has phrasal verbs ending with one or more prepositions. 'I asked him to come in' is perfectly grammatical; only a fool would try to avoid the preposition by Latinizing the sentence to read 'I asked him to enter.'<br /><br /> John Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027156691859606002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-56849251531771552172015-12-17T13:21:50.367-05:002015-12-17T13:21:50.367-05:00Gob, the Mass includes Aramaic (Amen) and Greek (K...Gob, the Mass includes Aramaic (Amen) and Greek (Kyrie) and Latin (Agnus Dei) as well as the vernacular. Our churches incorporate Franciscan spiritual insights (stations of the cross) and various devotions (Marian, local saints, Divine Mercy etc.).<br /><br />So I fail to see how us "white guys" are imposing our Western culture on Asians and Americans rather than INVITING them to join us in this pan-cultural thing called Catholicism.<br /><br />Last time I checked, the Jewish and Greek influences (and Latin) were not "white western" cultural hegemonic impositions but elements from cultures that pre-dated our European ancestors (mostly barbarian Germans, Scots, Celts, and Scandanavians).<br /><br />We've ALL had to let go of some of our ancestral customs to adopt a Catholic ethos.<br /><br />We've ALL had to fuse and blend with other groups with whom our ancestors once fought wars with. <br /><br />White Euro-Americans are heirs of 2 millennia of intra-ethnic wars and mixing. We are not some unchanging monolithic culture (and neither are the Asians and Hispanics).<br /><br />It is a colossal mistake to presume ethnicities and cultures are monolithic and cannot blend with others without some sort of violent loss or submission.<br />Jusadbellumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-79214153527503931532015-12-17T12:10:17.283-05:002015-12-17T12:10:17.283-05:00gob, "is" that all you can do? Are you t...gob, "is" that all you can do? Are you the grammar police? Answer the substance of the argument or buzz offTJMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15295786341022051107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-2986106162239222222015-12-17T10:07:27.766-05:002015-12-17T10:07:27.766-05:00If, not is. (I was not defending myself. I was d...If, not is. (I was not defending myself. I was dismissing you. I guess you missed that.)gobnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-64981264504844929792015-12-17T09:28:42.188-05:002015-12-17T09:28:42.188-05:00gob, is you would like me to critique your writing...gob, is you would like me to critique your writing style I would be happy to do so. When losing the argument, that's what libs do. Thanks for confirming my viewsTJMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15295786341022051107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-37808001199477313792015-12-17T07:52:44.333-05:002015-12-17T07:52:44.333-05:00Wagner begot Ragtime, Ragtime begot Jazz, Jazz beg...Wagner begot Ragtime, Ragtime begot Jazz, Jazz begot Swing, Swing begot Rock and Roll, Rock and Roll begot Pop, Pop begot Disco, Disco begot Rap, Rap begot Hip Hop, and so on. It will eventually be fourteen generations. Rood Screenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09816036539243214384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-16474418396539203522015-12-17T06:36:56.008-05:002015-12-17T06:36:56.008-05:00Yes, we do have contemporary musicians making a ha...Yes, we do have contemporary musicians making a hash of the Greek on the very odd occasion. Namely, the Kyrie. Can you imagine the Kyrie done to an up tempo jungle type beat? The lead singer beats out: Kiereaaah alayeeeson, followed by his cohorts: Kiereaaah alayeeeson; lead singer: Krisstai alayeeeson, cohorts: Krisstai alayeeeson and so on, and they all come together in a final crescendo in a harmonizing barber shop quartet style: Kiereaaaaaah alayeeeeeeeson. Trust me, you don't want to go there. It is enough to put most people off Gregorian chant for life.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-44132615003533307582015-12-17T06:27:00.013-05:002015-12-17T06:27:00.013-05:00To quote Chgurchill, "The correcting of my gr...To quote Chgurchill, "The correcting of my grammar is something up with which I will not put."Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-89271702465435537682015-12-16T17:10:35.027-05:002015-12-16T17:10:35.027-05:00You should not end a sentence with a preposition.You should not end a sentence with a preposition.gobnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-32238682300972953972015-12-16T15:59:46.781-05:002015-12-16T15:59:46.781-05:00gob, and liberal catholics remind me of liberal de...gob, and liberal catholics remind me of liberal democrats. They desperately need to keep the people uninformed and dependent on them, otherwise, liberal catholics (and dems) would have no one to feel superior to! TJMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15295786341022051107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-65979873223025591862015-12-16T15:38:37.745-05:002015-12-16T15:38:37.745-05:00Flavius Hesychius said... Why is it that contempor...<i>Flavius Hesychius said... Why is it that contemporary Latin-rite composers feel it necessary to produce silly music? <b>Contemporary compositions for the Chrysostom Liturgy don't have this issue.</b></i><br /><br />Unfortunately, not true for Catholics of the Ruthenian eparchies in the U.S. We do indeed have this issue also. The liturgy was revised several years ago. <br /><br />Some of the tones from "the Green Book" are just awful. If you came to my parish and heard them, you might faint.<br /><br />I've heard the book referred to as "the Teal Terror." I have a priest friend who absolutely refuses to use it.DJRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18028761850444888285noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-56088334140307941652015-12-16T14:38:45.777-05:002015-12-16T14:38:45.777-05:00Lol, I've heard of Greek musicians being excom...Lol, I've heard of Greek musicians being excommunicated for singing the wrong chant tradition in church.<br /><br />I don't have a problem with contemporary compositions, provided it's appropriate. I'm with Gene that the jazzy, poppy, rocky BS has no place at Liturgy. If I want sloppy, soppy music, I'll just go right down to the local Baptist, Methodist, or non-denominational church.<br /><br />Why is it that contemporary Latin-rite composers feel it necessary to produce silly music? Contemporary compositions for the Chrysostom Liturgy don't have this issue. 'Gather Us In' was written in 1991, whilst Fr. Gloagolev wrote many of his pieces for Eastern liturgies and vigils in... 1995...<br /><br />(One could respond that Marty Haugen isn't Catholic... but I'd only ask why his music was being used at all.)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00554830859411216515noreply@blogger.com