tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post4538475007374317218..comments2024-03-28T16:23:19.433-04:00Comments on southern orders: SOME OF MY PARISHIONERS WHO ARE CONVERTS THINK ALTAR RAILINGS ARE A PROTESTANT THING!Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-12129876711570499902015-04-27T00:32:12.002-04:002015-04-27T00:32:12.002-04:00How could not having a Courtyard of the Gentiles b...How could not having a Courtyard of the Gentiles be anti-Semitic? If anything it's a sign of anti-Goyism. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00554830859411216515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-34991489778518131112015-04-25T16:22:41.616-04:002015-04-25T16:22:41.616-04:00Then why did you bring it up? Reminder: "P.S...Then why did you bring it up? Reminder: "P.S. Could the removal of altar rails be motivated by antisemitism?"<br /><br />Your principle "...it's worth mentioning that this Catholic practice (an altar rail) keeps our churches in continuity with the ancient Temple of Jerusalem..." seems to apply when that which is "continuous" suits your preferences.<br /><br />And where was the altar rail in the Jerusalem Temple?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-87566394829490900632015-04-25T14:34:02.538-04:002015-04-25T14:34:02.538-04:00Anonymous,
Thank you for complimenting my eloquen...Anonymous,<br /><br />Thank you for complimenting my eloquence. As for liturgical continuity and innovation, it is the Church who discerns which elements of old are retained or discarded, and which elements are introduced or rejected. Since the altar rail is neither mandated nor forbidden, those deciding whether or not to employ it should evaluate its continuity with the past and its relevance for the present. Antisemitism should not be allowed to influence the evaluation. Rood Screenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09816036539243214384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-65486972350897768762015-04-25T09:50:04.715-04:002015-04-25T09:50:04.715-04:00I suspect you need to look at the items from the T...I suspect you need to look at the items from the Temple that you want to "duplicate" (altar rails) and those you are willing (for anti-Semitic reasons?) to jettison (showbread, abattoir, etc).<br /><br />If it suits your preferences today (altar rails) you wax eloquent about the need for continuity, while, if it does not suit your preferences (Court of the Gentiles) you dismiss it as needless "duplication."<br /><br />How come?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-9093307200868169532015-04-25T08:30:58.156-04:002015-04-25T08:30:58.156-04:00Anonymous,
I suppose the best way to help you is ...Anonymous,<br /><br />I suppose the best way to help you is to suggest that you look up the difference between "continuity" and "duplication". Rood Screenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09816036539243214384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-38352326535754399512015-04-25T08:04:38.096-04:002015-04-25T08:04:38.096-04:00The fact many Protestant churches retained their a...The fact many Protestant churches retained their altar rails bears witness to the fact we Catholics have been lied to and had something stolen from us when the altar rails were taken out. If folks that don't believe in the Real Presence/Transubstantiation can kneel, how much more can we Catholics kneel before the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords! Not only did Vatican II not call for the removal of altar rails, but instructed in Sacrosanctum Concilium that "Ordinaries should ensure that sacred furnishings and works of value are not disposed of or destroyed, for they are ornaments in God's house"!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-53302698362390654992015-04-24T17:22:47.742-04:002015-04-24T17:22:47.742-04:00Your restoration of the altar rail is a grand acco...Your restoration of the altar rail is a grand accomplishment that I wish could be (will be) replicated in parishes around the world, including my own in N. Ga. One note: Presbyterians commonly remain seated in their pews for communion, which is passed around by ruling elders (the minister is a teaching elder). Baptists do the same, again in most cases. Calvin had parishioners seat themselves around the "table" (there is no altar in Calvinist churches). Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-44232724966224901612015-04-24T15:43:28.530-04:002015-04-24T15:43:28.530-04:00I haven't had any negative comment from anyone...I haven't had any negative comment from anyone. Many of our older churches still have their altar railings, such as the Cathedral (although the opening was widened) Most Holy Trinity in Augusta, Holy Family in Columbus and a number of other smaller parishes.<br /><br />Bishop Hartmayer approved the restoration of the altar railing after I had worked through the Pastoral Council and a consensus there. <br /><br />No negative comments, although they know I am traditional and high church when it comes to the liturgy, but I'm not and they know this, EF only, I love the OF but done in a high way. Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-46710564772919810322015-04-24T15:36:21.203-04:002015-04-24T15:36:21.203-04:00Father I am VERY interested in how the new(or is i...Father I am VERY interested in how the new(or is it old) altar rail has been received by the other novus ordo parishes in the Diocese, are you now persona non grata????Jacobnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-25868748658351029482015-04-24T15:31:31.513-04:002015-04-24T15:31:31.513-04:00If we are going to be in continuity with the plan ...If we are going to be in continuity with the plan of the Temple in Jerusalem, we are going to have to install the Altar of Sacrifice outside the Holy of Holies. <br /><br />We will need a separate Altar of Incense, a separate Court of the Women with separate entrances for them, a Treasury in every Church which must be located near the main entrance, and a Court for the Gentiles, however we will identify just who the Gentiles today might be.<br /><br />We will need a place for the Showbread, the abattoir, and the huge bowl for washing up.<br /><br />That's IF we want to be "in continuity" with the ancient Temple in Jerusalem. To have less than this might be motivated by anti-Semitism...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-65855603728544656982015-04-24T15:13:32.009-04:002015-04-24T15:13:32.009-04:00Shitefull,
Do you see how it is possible for &quo...Shitefull,<br /><br />Do you see how it is possible for "a couple" to ask a question directly, but for "many" to ask the question indirectly? Rood Screenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09816036539243214384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-59550107468649556442015-04-24T13:20:35.129-04:002015-04-24T13:20:35.129-04:00Anon, yes, intinction can be used in the Latin rit...Anon, yes, intinction can be used in the Latin rite, and I do know parishes where this is done. (It's my preferred way to receive)...Православный физикhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11313371333531421128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-36144159453489979622015-04-24T13:14:01.872-04:002015-04-24T13:14:01.872-04:00John, with regard to the placement of the altar ra...John, with regard to the placement of the altar rail in the Anglican tradition, often the layout of an Anglican church has the pulpit on one side, lectern on the other (as Catholics often do---if they don't have an ambo), and then the choir stalls are behind the pulpit/ambo, with the altar, whether free-standing or "facing the east" in the distance. At Atlanta's (Episcopal) Cathedral of St. Philip, the choir is behind the altar (a screen partially shields them), as there would not be sufficient space for a choir facing each other given the small area around the altar (in part because of the bishop's throne---and kneeler!) Growing up here in Atlanta, our family would watch the St Philips Christmas service (televised every year by WSB TV since 1949) before the Vatican Mass came on at Midnight, and it was very ceremonial---the choir (maybe 40-50) processing up the long aisle of St Philips, acolytes, incense and clergy wearing the finest vestments (mixture of copes and chasubles) Incidentally, almost right across the street from St. Philips is the Catholic cathedral (Archdiocese of Atlanta), which still has an altar rail but I have never seen it in use when attending Mass there (I go to another parish a few miles from there usually).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-23765704669868864572015-04-24T12:53:38.773-04:002015-04-24T12:53:38.773-04:00Dear Father,
The rails are indeed a beauty! In a ...Dear Father,<br /><br />The rails are indeed a beauty! In a liturgical commentary I read, tell us that the rails are actually an extension of the table of the Lord. And as the communicant comes for holy communion, he \she kneels and receive Holy Communion on the tongue. He\she is actually coming to be fed at the table of the Lord. Thank you for restoring such beauty and theology! darkknighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02766179290060969260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-70538464990768040302015-04-24T12:29:23.036-04:002015-04-24T12:29:23.036-04:00Everyone loves how it looks, toe people have asked...Everyone loves how it looks, toe people have asked the reason why, one a pastoral council member, herself a convert, who wondered and had others asking her. It was a result of her question and comment at a meeting that has resulted in my catechesis.Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-55244334705572638562015-04-24T12:25:24.769-04:002015-04-24T12:25:24.769-04:00"SOME of my parishioners who are converts......."SOME of my parishioners who are converts......"<br /><br />"I've discovered that MANY of my parishioners who are converts......"<br /><br />"I've had a COUPLE of parishioners ask....."<br /><br />Confusing...which is it? Some? Many? A couple? Were some, a couple, many of the comments in the form of complaints? Just wondering...gobshitenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-37453114192532280892015-04-24T12:16:05.984-04:002015-04-24T12:16:05.984-04:00FrAJM, please follow up with the reaction of the c...FrAJM, please follow up with the reaction of the converts. One of the most angry reactions to the new translation was from a Methodist convert. rcghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09131930849106490711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-15988614571636061742015-04-24T12:06:08.354-04:002015-04-24T12:06:08.354-04:00Not calling out anyone/anything to blame but maybe...Not calling out anyone/anything to blame but maybe along with the Catechesis a bit of good ol' fashioned history would help. I also think the history would help youth and converts put a face on His church, that real people are part of His Church, not a bunch of "goat herders" and not all men.Paul (from a secret location)noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-46550803382772293992015-04-24T11:29:36.243-04:002015-04-24T11:29:36.243-04:00That's an understandable misconception. I went...That's an understandable misconception. I went to a cousin's wedding in a Methodist church, and the "sanctuary" (I'm not sure what it's actually called: the place with the pulpit and communion table?) had a very tasteful altar rail. I thought to myself, if Methodists can kneel to receive their bread-symbolizing-the-Last-Supper at a rail, why can't Catholics???NDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10515599313649065142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-17617160199120736842015-04-24T11:00:03.831-04:002015-04-24T11:00:03.831-04:00Protestant sects in the 16th century argued over h...Protestant sects in the 16th century argued over how the sacrament was to be received - sitting, standing, kneeling?<br /><br />The famous 'black rubric' of the Anglican Church asked the faithful to kneel but take the sacrament in the hand. <br /><br />So in Anglican churches there is often a communion rail which enables the communicants to kneel, but it is in the wrong place - not between the nave and the chancel but just before the altar steps. I won't go into the problems that 'railing' engendered in the 17th century among the Puritans, but the fact that it has surfaced in the modern Catholic Church is rather strange, to say the least. <br /><br />Do we have a different theology, a different ecclesiology, a different hermeneutic of the Mass as Fr Kavanaugh would have us believe? I tend to doubt it.<br /><br />John Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027156691859606002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-37659917584339002672015-04-24T10:29:00.618-04:002015-04-24T10:29:00.618-04:00Lefebvrian,
Father McDonald does a great job catec...Lefebvrian,<br />Father McDonald does a great job catechizing us, in homily and in bulletins. As Father has said, it is the PROTESTANTS that have these misunderstandings. That they have not seen this in other Catholic churches indicates that it is the other churches that need do the proper catechizing.qwiknesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15439450727837308035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-89938449875457752292015-04-24T10:14:05.975-04:002015-04-24T10:14:05.975-04:00I'm not sure about the kneeling. I go to a Byz...I'm not sure about the kneeling. I go to a Byzantine Rite parish and have also been to Melkite, Maronite Rites as well, they all receive standing, on the tongue, by intinction. I don't think kneeling has ever been a part of the eastern Churches? Could intinction ever be used in the Latin Church?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-2214852791185895722015-04-24T09:49:34.009-04:002015-04-24T09:49:34.009-04:00As far as the Holy of Holies is concerned, it'...As far as the Holy of Holies is concerned, it's worth mentioning that this Catholic practice keeps our churches in continuity with the ancient Temple of Jerusalem, and with the desert Tabernacle before that. It's a 4000 year journey of faith, ya'll. <br /><br />"Aufer a nobis, quǽsumus Dómine, iniquitátes nostras: ut ad Sancta Sanctórum puris mereámur méntibus introíre." <br /><br />P.S. Could the removal of altar rails be motivated by antisemitism? Rood Screenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09816036539243214384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-30121555425488446562015-04-24T09:07:31.782-04:002015-04-24T09:07:31.782-04:00An outstanding parish bulletin statement, Fr. MacD...An outstanding parish bulletin statement, Fr. MacDonald. Hat's off to you.<br /><br />PS. As a former Methodist, the first time I ever stood for holy communion was in a wreckovated Catholic church.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-27192284639249378752015-04-24T08:55:07.459-04:002015-04-24T08:55:07.459-04:00This is a sad indication of how effective the so-c...This is a sad indication of how effective the so-called reformers were in stripping away the Liturgical patrimony of the Church. I'd be interested to hear how your letter is received. <br /><br />The fact that you've gotten such questions indicates that your flock needs some catechesis on Catholic worship from an historical perspective.Lefebvriannoreply@blogger.com