tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post4332018384092032657..comments2024-03-28T20:30:10.681-04:00Comments on southern orders: WHILE EXERCISING THIS MORNING, I HAD A BRAIN STORM ABOUT THE RITE OF THE MARRIAGE AND ITS REVISION FOR US POOR MAIN-LINE LATIN RITE CATHOLICSFr. Allan J. McDonaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-77966977314968883612012-07-11T13:45:33.944-04:002012-07-11T13:45:33.944-04:00Henry, I missed your sarcasm. I think I used all ...Henry, I missed your sarcasm. I think I used all my sarcasm detection dealing with Pater Ignotus on a different thread here.<br /><br />Templar, the Popes did it to themselves.Marchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13510317669833026685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-11347608563338176302012-07-11T12:44:08.182-04:002012-07-11T12:44:08.182-04:00Templar, that story shows exactly what has happene...Templar, that story shows exactly what has happened since V-II. People fuss about the selling of indulgences, but rather than correct it, they make it safe legal and common. Reminds me of the Dennis Miller line about people feeling bad for selling their souls in the '90s: at least they got out when the market was high.rcghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09131930849106490711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-8420567272256638082012-07-11T12:39:33.847-04:002012-07-11T12:39:33.847-04:00Marc, surely you did not take seriously my suggest...Marc, surely you did not take seriously my suggestion that an assumption of general confession was behind the omission of the penitential rite from the OF nuptial Mass. Who ever heard of a couple going to general confession before OF marriage rites?Henry Edwardsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-47245628195397980282012-07-11T11:59:56.429-04:002012-07-11T11:59:56.429-04:00What I'd really like to see changed about Marr...What I'd really like to see changed about Marriage in the Church for them to take Canon Law seriously. I have a good friend, raised Catholic, now Baptist. Has been living with a woman for just under 5 years and they are now engaged. She is Catholic, was married for 10 years, and has not gotten a divorce but has been seperated for these 5 years. So my fiend, ex-Catholic instinctively knows that they can not get married in the Catholic Church....but wait...his fiance the actual Catholic has a 15 minute meeting with a Priest in this Diocese and is told, for $450 I can get you an annullment.<br /><br />Forget about changing the words of the Rite, lets worry about doing what's Right.Templarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18204866760862707908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-32725687310401250122012-07-11T11:47:40.651-04:002012-07-11T11:47:40.651-04:00Henry, in theory if V2 had not happened it would b...Henry, in theory if V2 had not happened it would be possible for the Church to "admit forthrightly" that a mistake had been made and correct it, but the Pope has surrendered all his authority to the new Legislative Church. Now he can only suggest, and suggest I might add to the Secretary of State, who is the Vicar of the Vicar of Christ, and all Church Offices answer to he. The Popes authority ends at his apartment door, and he is beset on all sides by those who despise his agenda. We are truly blessed by his courage and that he has accompishled as much as he has.Templarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18204866760862707908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-46803907021516097762012-07-11T11:28:33.760-04:002012-07-11T11:28:33.760-04:00I look at the Penitential Rite this way: Just beca...I look at the Penitential Rite this way: Just because you are in the State of Grace doesn't mean you can stop saying Acts of Contrition until you happen to sin again...<br /><br />So, even assuming a general Confession the day before, there should still be a Penitential Rite.<br /><br />The following is just an observation on something that generally might affect this discussion:<br /><br />It seems like in former times, the structure of the Mass was always retained. Sometimes painful lengths were taken to make everything conform, as in the Good Friday Liturgy of the Presanctified, for example. <br /><br />In the current times, everything has to conform to a "Liturgy of the Word" model. This probably has something to do with the idea of the "Word of God" being a sort of "Presence" equal to the Sacramental Presence of Christ in the Eucharist.Marchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13510317669833026685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-34362371541472186742012-07-11T11:11:41.265-04:002012-07-11T11:11:41.265-04:00Marc: "It is truly bizarre that there is no P...Marc: <b>"It is truly bizarre that there is no Penitential Rite in the Novus Ordo marriage rite - wasn't it formerly customary for people to make a general confession prior to getting married?"</b><br /><br />Precisely. No doubt, it is assumed that the couple have made general confessions the previous day, and have remained chaste overnight, and therefore they need no penitential rite in their nuptial Mass.<br /><br />Seriously, I wonder how many people are beginning to be repulsed by incessant discussion of liturgical revisions. Is it not possible for the Church to admit forthrightly that a grievous pastoral and liturgical failure occurred after Vatican II, one that necessitates going back and starting over at the point when the wrong fork in the road was taken, with tens or hundreds of millions of the faithful led astray?Henry Edwardsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-68409135618452647222012-07-11T09:23:19.731-04:002012-07-11T09:23:19.731-04:00Hey Father, what about the EF Exhortation, as quot...Hey Father, what about the EF Exhortation, as quoted over on Father Z? I know of many priests who have inserted this into the OF on grounds of mutual enrichment.<br /><br />By the way, you should be getting your Parsch books today or very soon.James I. McAuleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-47570844222622053932012-07-11T09:02:45.807-04:002012-07-11T09:02:45.807-04:00I'm thinking of a return largely to the EF ver...I'm thinking of a return largely to the EF version. The groundwork is already there - obviously it needs to be translated properly. But, aside from that, what exactly needs changing? <br /><br />If the EF is to influence the OF, it seems like this is the sort of scheme the revisers should be using...<br /><br />It is truly bizarre that there is no Penitential Rite in the Novus Ordo marriage rite - wasn't it formerly customary for people to make a general confession prior to getting married?Marchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13510317669833026685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-56036531204462052422012-07-11T08:58:00.400-04:002012-07-11T08:58:00.400-04:00Are you speaking, Marc, of the OF or the EF? The O...Are you speaking, Marc, of the OF or the EF? The OF Nuptial Mass is in the process of being revised, but the rite has not been published although the Roman Missal has the reformed translation for the Nuptial Mass in terms of the Collect, blessing of rings, Prayer over the Gifts, Post Communion, Prefaces and Nuptial Blessings and Final Solemn Blessing, but it hasn't revsied the English rite of marriage yet, so the three questions before the vows and the vows themselves are the older English.<br /><br />The conundrum is that the new English Missal now states for the first time that there is not Penitential Rite and does not indicate even a stand alone Kyrie, it simply has the Greeting and then to the Gloria.Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-16580304579363524792012-07-11T08:50:56.462-04:002012-07-11T08:50:56.462-04:00I mean, you're hypothesizing about ways to fix...I mean, you're hypothesizing about ways to fix the current Novus Ordo Rite, right? I'm suggesting the simplest solution: why not just go back to doing it the way it was always done?<br /><br />Presumably, there are already books and what not with it all printed out. All the guess work is removed! Problem solved!Marchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13510317669833026685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-13008688253371284792012-07-11T08:40:48.777-04:002012-07-11T08:40:48.777-04:00Holy Mother Church, in whom I am in humble servitu...Holy Mother Church, in whom I am in humble servitude, has not deemed the Ordinary Form of the Nuptial Mass be abrogated nor has she completely reformed it yet, but the days are coming. Notwithstanding that, the EF is an option, but of the couple's choosing, not the priest's.Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-32737759319981205542012-07-11T08:34:49.878-04:002012-07-11T08:34:49.878-04:00Why not just go back to doing it the way it was al...Why not just go back to doing it the way it was always done?Marchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13510317669833026685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-68467265428141756532012-07-11T08:18:20.114-04:002012-07-11T08:18:20.114-04:00I like that a lot. Would be cool if you had a sta...I like that a lot. Would be cool if you had a staff to pound the floor at the beginning and end of the paragraph "I require you both..." Sort of makes it clear this is a proclamation. Really cool.rcghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09131930849106490711noreply@blogger.com