tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post4225850551549724584..comments2024-03-28T20:30:10.681-04:00Comments on southern orders: THE ENGLISH ROMAN CANON OF THE DIVINE WORSHIP, THE MASS MISSAL OF THE ORDINARIATEFr. Allan J. McDonaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-17007076598416074302016-02-04T11:33:27.279-05:002016-02-04T11:33:27.279-05:00The 'Great Amen' at the end of the doxolog...The 'Great Amen' at the end of the doxology of the Canon is a post-Novus Ordo conceit (it's not in the GIRM), as is the transformation of the minor elevation into the major elevation. The fabricators of the new Mass disliked the Roman Canon and wanted it replaced (an early 20th century conceit); when Paul VI ordered it to be retained they still altered it by putting some of it in brackets and insisting on the new consecration formula and the 'acclamations'.<br /><br />The Dominican Rite, the only example of a pre-Tridentine Use that most people are likely to come across, has the signs of the Cross at the Per Ipsum but no minor elevation. From what we know nowadays about liturgical history and tradition, if a reform of the liturgy were to take place now rather than in the 1960s and at a less hurried pace, the result would be markedly different.John Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027156691859606002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-30464940538199345962016-02-04T09:52:42.748-05:002016-02-04T09:52:42.748-05:00It's interesting to me that they would teach s...It's interesting to me that they would teach seminarians not to add those conclusions cause they detract from the "Great Amen" (what ever happened to the "minor elevation" title?)... and yet, most of those same clergy probably never even used the Canon once the other EPs were available. ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-19411424528741772832016-02-04T08:41:04.689-05:002016-02-04T08:41:04.689-05:00Well, that would be obvious, given how retrograde ...Well, that would be obvious, given how retrograde your seminary, Mt. St. Mary's was when you went there. Those of us in progressive, liberal seminaries like mine, the country's oldest, St. Mary's in Baltimore certainly forbade us to say the extra "through Christ our Lord. Amens" because it fragmented the Canon, when is was used but certainly only rarely it should be as we were taught. The Great Amen was the apex of the Eucharistic Prayer which should not be watered down by the multiple amens (same with multiple signs of the cross of course, the same ideology) and there were those who wanted the genuflection or bow to be only in one place during it and that is after the Great Amen, not after the consecrations. Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-87262375581717351162016-02-04T08:34:11.883-05:002016-02-04T08:34:11.883-05:00I was never taught that the multiple "Through...I was never taught that the multiple "Through Christ our Lord"'s detract from anything. Fr. Michael J. Kavanaughnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-38541967729720238312016-02-04T05:00:01.726-05:002016-02-04T05:00:01.726-05:00I looked at the specific general instruction for t...I looked at the specific general instruction for the Ordinariate about the additional signs of the cross and could not find it. However there is the instruction that at the Lord I am not worthy it can be said once or thrice. <br /><br />Most priests don't use the additional "Through Christ our Lord. Amen" because we were taught that it detracts from the Great Amen which in the reform is given greater attention and the additional amens fragment one prayer into many. In the EF the Amen at the end is no greater than any other in the Canon.<br /><br />It is mandated that the Roman Canon be used on Sundays and Solemnities and that our Eucharistic Prayer II with Elizabethan English be used for daily Mass and Mass with children or in case of need on a Sunday.Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-9280126540663236902016-02-03T21:07:58.722-05:002016-02-03T21:07:58.722-05:00Three observations:
1. It's strange to me tha...Three observations:<br /><br />1. It's strange to me that the saints can't be omitted, but the "Through Christ our Lord. Amen" conclusions on the Communicantes, Hanc Igitur, Supplices Te Rogamus, and second Memento can be. And in fact, most of the priests I've heard use the Canon in the OF omit those conclusions. Are they just awkward to say or something?<br /><br />2. They're not listed here, but at least one Ordinariate Mass I watched had the priest making three signs of the cross at "This pure Victim, this holy Victim, this spotless Victim." Are those present as an option / custom, or not present at all?<br /><br />3. The OF itself would greatly benefit from having the Canon mandated as the main prayer for Sundays throughout the year, and for solemnities.Michael (Quicumque Vult)http://quicumquevult.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-76393971530152189402016-02-03T18:05:09.409-05:002016-02-03T18:05:09.409-05:00It would be better if they said for thine is the k...It would be better if they said for thine is the kingdom power and glory, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, now and ever and foreverПравославный физикhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11313371333531421128noreply@blogger.com