tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post3082598318344286461..comments2024-03-28T20:30:10.681-04:00Comments on southern orders: UNDOING VATICAN II, WHO IS THE CULPRIT? AND MY CLAIRVOYANT PREDICTION THAT POPE FRANCIS WILL VISIT AN FSSP PARISH AND CELEBRATE WITH THEM THE EXTRAORDINARY FORM OF THE MASSFr. Allan J. McDonaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-56934539387168681262014-01-22T21:03:57.687-05:002014-01-22T21:03:57.687-05:00Vatican Two Shmatican Two…!Vatican Two Shmatican Two…!Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-21243675176085083442014-01-22T19:32:07.671-05:002014-01-22T19:32:07.671-05:00Infallible inshmallible....Infallible inshmallible....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-72718946742439907252014-01-21T19:36:24.716-05:002014-01-21T19:36:24.716-05:00"Vatican II made no new doctrines or dogmas a..."Vatican II made no new doctrines or dogmas and changed no official teachings of the Church that are immutable."<br /><br />I read somewhere that Pope John XXIII made it one of the conditions that nothing infallible was to come out of the Council. Perhaps someone with more knowledge about this can provide something further.Georgenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-52562681598734692932014-01-21T19:24:53.537-05:002014-01-21T19:24:53.537-05:00Choir dress, I don't know if he knows what cho...Choir dress, I don't know if he knows what choir dress is. And he made Guido Marini lose the lace!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-57637372966439574362014-01-21T16:25:48.546-05:002014-01-21T16:25:48.546-05:00The latest comments evince a great misunderstandi...The latest comments evince a great misunderstanding of the SSPX position, history, and mission.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-83412298077924088842014-01-21T15:48:55.047-05:002014-01-21T15:48:55.047-05:00Henry, this morning my clairvoyance was telling me...Henry, this morning my clairvoyance was telling me as I wrote this post, but I thought it too far fetched, but I really don't think so, that Pope Francis will eventually end up regularizing the SSPX. I don't think he is going to allow them to sell out Vatican II, so I think there will be some conditions in terms of fidelity to the Holy Father, any pope's Magisterium and to the authority of Vatican II. But let's face it, apart from revealed doctrine and dogma which any Council would reiterate, Vatican II made no new doctrines or dogmas and changed no official teachings of the Church that are immutable. It did change pastoral practice and certain ideologies associated with the Reformation Mentality as it concerns Protestants and it opened the Church to dialogue with other religions and with no religions and with the world. But this is hardly new doctrine or infallible, immutable truths that each and every Catholic has to believe or appreciate. I do think however, that they must accept the validity of liturgical reforms even of those they don't like, but again, what so infallible about those?<br /><br />So yes, my clairvoyance tells me that SSPX will be made regular with the Church by Pope Francis himself and maybe under the FSSP or an Ordinariate similar to the Anglican one. Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-31084750520200360432014-01-21T15:33:28.102-05:002014-01-21T15:33:28.102-05:00Back on topic (more or less) Fr. Hunwicke's &q...Back on topic (more or less) Fr. Hunwicke's "Mutual Enrichment" blog yesterday had a post speculating on the possibility that Pope Francis might regularize the SSPX. What says your crystal ball about this one, Fr. McDonald?<br /><br />http://liturgicalnotes.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/sspx-is-it-ecumenism-or-is-it-not-2.html<br /><br />"I can think of one, massive, reason why Francis is the man to conclude this episode. ... [read it there] ...<br /><br />"It is open to the Holy Father to solve the SSPX 'problem' within days. The Roman Pontiff regularly grants an audience, I think on Friday evenings, to the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. Next Friday, he could give Archbishop Mueller his orders. During the next audience, he could sign the documents*. The following Wednesday, at his General Audience, in between kissing the babies and hugging the cripples, he could embrace in public His Excellency Mgr Fellay and the other Reverend and Right Reverend leaders of the SSPX, in front of all the world's cameras and all its head-scratching journalists. And, just as he electrified the world by his choice of the feet to be washed and kissed on his first Maundy Thursday, Francis could use a dozen young clerics of the Society in his second Maundy Thursday pedilavium. . . . . ... humility ... you know it makes sense ... )Henrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-51089206595800430032014-01-21T15:21:58.228-05:002014-01-21T15:21:58.228-05:00A@12:35 - actually He doesn't compare the dres...A@12:35 - actually He doesn't compare the dress but clearly expected people to clean up and wear the best they had that was appropriate. rcghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09131930849106490711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-10713926762592650222014-01-21T15:14:57.548-05:002014-01-21T15:14:57.548-05:00Oh dear, Anonymous (#1),
Wrong again. Check the r...Oh dear, Anonymous (#1),<br /><br />Wrong again. Check the record (oh sorry, I forgot, you don’t do that) – I support the re-introduction of the TLM, choir dress and all, and believe that the TLM should never have been eliminated. Doing so was a big mistake. I also support the OF Mass, and even the OF with reverent folk music (on this point Father McDonald and I differ). I am a liturgical pluralist in this respect. I do not understand the “ultra-traddies” who want to do away with the OF and I do not understand the “ultra-trendies” who want to do away with the EF. I want to be an orthodox Catholic who will not put God in a little box and believe I am following the magisterium in this.<br />Anonymous 2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-49451542311272458002014-01-21T14:06:04.192-05:002014-01-21T14:06:04.192-05:002.Rochet (Eccl) A linen garment resembling the sur...2.Rochet (Eccl) A linen garment resembling the surplise, but with narrower sleeves, also without sleeves, worn by bishops, and by some other ecclesiastical dignitaries, in certain religious ceremonies. <br /><br />"They see no difference between an idler with a hat and national cockade, and an idler in a cowl or in a rochet."<br /><br />In the Roman Catholic Church the rochet is worn by bishops and abbots, usually under a manteletta, and, as a choir vestment, by some canons<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-68755169900176280792014-01-21T13:56:07.594-05:002014-01-21T13:56:07.594-05:00I don't think liturgical protocol or any proto...I don't think liturgical protocol or any protocol should be dispensed at will by anyone but certainly the Holy Father has that authority. But in terms of choir dress, I have seen him on only one occasion thus far place the "surplice" (not sure of the official name for the pope's) and then stole and cope for Benediction at one of the outdoor extravaganza's that had adoration and then Benediction. Prior to this part, he was simply in the papal cassock, then went behind to altar to vest for Benediction and had the surplice in place of the alb.Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-47540860466612505412014-01-21T12:35:29.204-05:002014-01-21T12:35:29.204-05:00Can't y'all get over what people wear? Cl...Can't y'all get over what people wear? Clothes don't make the man...or the church. With the possible exception of the few (291...make that 290) members here, the world (and I would include Jesus in that) doesn't give a hoot whether the Pope wears choir dress or a prom dress or a Denver Broncos football jersey.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-72507505407208819772014-01-21T12:24:25.113-05:002014-01-21T12:24:25.113-05:00I agree Father. Pope Francis is likely to assist a...I agree Father. Pope Francis is likely to assist at a Traditional Latin Mass. This is why he said Mass ad orientem. He is over the liturgy wars. He is ready to move on. The liturgy is very important because it brings us Christ. However, we must focus on Christ more than the minutia of the Liturgy (and I am a liturgist). The minutia should be a means to an end- never an end in themselves. Francis has picked up on much of Benedict's message- use of Latin, altar arrangement, chanting introit- and lets some asside (use of traditional vestments to emphasize continuity). However, he is trying to do what he can to make liturgy less of a topic and Christ more of a topic. Steven Surrencynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-29956357994628409802014-01-21T10:47:57.071-05:002014-01-21T10:47:57.071-05:00Anonymous, I beg to disagree. When his election wa...Anonymous, I beg to disagree. When his election was announced my first reaction was "Oh no. A Jesuit, and a South American to boot. Would the last person to leave the Church please turn the lights out".<br /><br />Whatever he might have been as Archbishop of Buenos Aires (capital of a banana republic which I seem to recall we had to travel 8000 miles in 1982 to put in its place) he is now the Roman Pontiff. He is a good man. He is a far better man than I am. That is not difficult. Both Father McDonald and Father Kavanaugh are better men than I am. <br /><br />The pope in defence of whose authority St Thomas More went to the scaffold (Clement VII) was not the most praiseworthy figure to have occupied the Chair of Peter. <br /><br />Evelyn Waugh has a salient phrase which runs throughout the last novel of his "Sword of Honour" trilogy and was written by the elder and dying Crouchback to his son, concerning what he refers to as the mystical Body, the Church: "Quantitative judgements don't apply". I think an acknowledged literary genius has something to teach us here.John Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027156691859606002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-56572730249561062012014-01-21T08:26:25.869-05:002014-01-21T08:26:25.869-05:00Francis could enter St Peter's on the sedia we...Francis could enter St Peter's on the sedia wearing the papal tiara and it would mean nothing. Too little to late. He hates Tradition/tradition and anything he might do would be for show. If it talks like a duck, walks like a duck it's a duck. He is a tradition hating liberal.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-89966069906234804062014-01-21T08:20:24.028-05:002014-01-21T08:20:24.028-05:00The idea of not proselytizing was very difficult f...The idea of not proselytizing was very difficult for me to grasp. Several years ago I ran into this concept in execution in the Philippines and disagreed strongly. The situation was a region that is contested with very aggressive Muslims. I have come to understand and agree with the wisdom of the approach, but feel it is blunted somewhat by the chummy presentation of the Liturgy in the NO. believe it or not people appreciate respect and, in turn, respect those who show it, especially toward God. rcghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09131930849106490711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-46926516425171155372014-01-21T08:03:03.460-05:002014-01-21T08:03:03.460-05:00If Pope Francis wears choir dress Anonymous 2 will...If Pope Francis wears choir dress Anonymous 2 will have an apoplectic fit. Break out the smelling salts.<br /><br />Anonymous 7.01.^r5Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-81016984668093754082014-01-21T07:19:37.591-05:002014-01-21T07:19:37.591-05:00Father, I'm sorry but have you fallen and hit ...Father, I'm sorry but have you fallen and hit your head or something? There is no way that Pope Francis will visit a FSSP parish and no chance he will attend or offer a Tridentine Mass. If he does they got another imposter "pope" from the same shop they got one to imitate Paul VI. Before anyone has a tizzy, that's a joke. But the real joke is to even think that Francis would do any of this. Impossible, never will happen. Just rest Father, you'll be okay.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-8589602688101648452014-01-21T07:14:54.468-05:002014-01-21T07:14:54.468-05:00Even in preVatican 2 times we were taught not to p...Even in preVatican 2 times we were taught not to proselytize and our hospitals and other institutions were never used for proselytizing ever! What is said is Classically Catholic but certainly not Calvinist!Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-75907382458619287792014-01-21T06:40:40.503-05:002014-01-21T06:40:40.503-05:00The Pope has not worn choir dress since his electi...The Pope has not worn choir dress since his election. If he does not do so at the forthcoming consistory (where all the Cardinals-elect will be in choir dress) it can be safely assumed that he has no intention of ever doing so. <br /><br />Left alone, the TLM will make slow but steady progress. No doubt the trendies would like him to get rid of SP so that the traddies will all decamp to the SSPX and leave them ruling the roost - but it ain't going to happen. John Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027156691859606002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-80730069387814274922014-01-21T06:34:20.558-05:002014-01-21T06:34:20.558-05:00Um, and yesterday the Pope said that, "whethe...Um, and yesterday the Pope said that, "whether Christian with the Bible or Muslim with the Quoran, the faith your parents instilled will help you move on."<br />What a nice piece of religious/cultural equivalence. So much for" preaching the Gospel to all nations."<br /><br />Does no one else see anything wrong here? Sheesh...Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.com