tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post2786431010062812949..comments2024-03-28T09:14:32.869-04:00Comments on southern orders: ANOTHER BOMBSHELL INTERVIEW WITH CARDINAL MULLER, WHEREIN I JUST TOTALLY AGREE WITH HIMFr. Allan J. McDonaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-17519685650167182302018-11-30T16:01:13.809-05:002018-11-30T16:01:13.809-05:00"Oh, and people who report things damaging to..."Oh, and people who report things damaging to bishops? They are doing the devil's work."<br /><br />Yes and possibly also committing CALUMNY!Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01504517769804159508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-81121360453100418752018-11-30T13:03:58.471-05:002018-11-30T13:03:58.471-05:00TJM:
Two answers:
"I will not say one word ...TJM:<br /><br />Two answers:<br /><br />"I will not say one word about this."<br /><br />"Who am I to judge?"<br /><br />Oh, and people who report things damaging to bishops? They are doing the devil's work.Fr Martin Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01375628123126091747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-35454619482388417752018-11-30T11:20:54.346-05:002018-11-30T11:20:54.346-05:00Well if the investigation is honest, there are two...Well if the investigation is honest, there are two American cardinal archbishop who should be given their walking papers, but I am not counting on it, since I just learned one of the head foxes is going to head the synod on this very issue. TJMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-49773797357856042532018-11-30T11:13:16.832-05:002018-11-30T11:13:16.832-05:00Does anyone know what penalties, if any, the Vati...Does anyone know what penalties, if any, the Vatican has imposed on the prelates involved in the cocaine fueled gay sex party at the Vatican in the apartment of one of the pope's proteges? I understand one of the participants was being considered for a bishopric!TJMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-42766467576299794682018-11-30T10:26:34.839-05:002018-11-30T10:26:34.839-05:00Father Fox said..."I simply disagree with you...Father Fox said..."I simply disagree with you that a full investigation of the McCarrick scandal is a bad idea. You defend, "I will not say one word" as the right move. I disagree."<br /><br />Father Fox, I favor an investigation of the Mccarrick Affair. Rome is investigating the McCarrick situation.<br /><br />My point is that I favor Pope Francis' public response to Archbishop Viganò "testimony/testimonies".<br /><br />Pax.<br /><br />Mark Thomas<br />Mark Thomasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-56719357079038965722018-11-30T10:05:53.221-05:002018-11-30T10:05:53.221-05:00Good heavens, if Saints Catherine of Siena or Ther...Good heavens, if Saints Catherine of Siena or Theresa of Avila or Peter Damien were around today, what would they be saying about the bishops, the Vatican? What would they be demanding -- publicly -- from the pope?<br /><br />And who would be denouncing them for the temerity to challenge the pope?Fr Martin Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01375628123126091747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-80300518210668671092018-11-30T10:03:58.548-05:002018-11-30T10:03:58.548-05:00Mark:
I simply disagree with you that a full inve...Mark:<br /><br />I simply disagree with you that a full investigation of the McCarrick scandal is a bad idea. You defend, "I will not say one word" as the right move. I disagree. All the faithful, including me, but obviously not limited to me, have a genuine right and need to know that the hierarchy is honest and more than that, has courage and real virtue. <br /><br />Many, many, many faithful -- and many others! -- cannot fathom how anyone can learn of grooming, lechery, child rape, and attempts to bed seminarians, and respond in the bloodless, bureaucratic way so many of our bishops have responded. Do you get that? I am not a biological father, I don't know if you are; but what parent would respond that way? I will not speak of how they would react if their own child was being preyed upon and abused. How do you think they would react if they learned <i>any</i> child was being groomed and leered over and raped? The responses are instant, natural and almost mandatory. Righteous anger and immediate concern to protect that child and shut down the abuser.<br /><br />But how did our bishops respond? And the Vatican? <br /><br />Bloodless. Bureaucratic. Can't be true, the kid is lying. How dare you threaten monsignor's career? You don't want the Church to look bad, do you? Oh well, lechers will be lechers; we'll ship him off for treatment and he'll be good to go. The kid won't even remember what happened. Get over it. Here's a few bucks.<br /><br />People were silent and approving as McCarrick rose to power. It's all a pattern. Does the pope care? Does he care that people are furious, righteously and properly furious?<br /><br />He insults those who object; who demand answers; says they are in league with the devil. "I will not say one word." <br /><br />Where is the investigation? The transparency? The demand for holiness? "Who am I to judge?"<br /><br />And you just told us all that you approve of this course of action. Astounding.<br /><br />And when you tell me and all the faithful that we should just shut up and trust the hierarchs...good golly, talk about CLERICALISM!Fr Martin Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01375628123126091747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-54081382394617260572018-11-30T09:56:21.287-05:002018-11-30T09:56:21.287-05:00MT I will continue to censor some of your comments...MT I will continue to censor some of your comments when they are just too much out there in La La Land, especially those comments which I deleted concerning the PA Attorney General's report as though it was entirely concocted. It wasn't. It is real and to deny reality, which you often do, exacerbates very real problems in the Church and to cherry pick the methods of Archbishop Vigano's legitimate complaints about the current state of the papacy and Church is like an ostrich sticking his head in the sand, which in fact ostriches don't do and you should overcome. <br /><br />We need honest voices in the Church today--we are in a crisis not known to the Church since the early Church controversies, the Great Schism and the Protestant Reformation. <br />Great saints said some stupid things but the truth they spoke is why they were canonized. Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-5876518963735747972018-11-30T09:37:58.980-05:002018-11-30T09:37:58.980-05:00Father Fox, I am thankful that His Holiness Pope F...Father Fox, I am thankful that His Holiness Pope Francis did not respond as you desired to the attack that Archbishop Viganò launched against the Holy Father.<br /><br />If anything, Cardinal Müller's chastisement of Archbishop Viganò's awful methods — that is, Archbishop Viganò decided to stir public controversy, which, in turn, led ultimately to "questioning the credibility of the Church and her mission." — is good enough reason for Pope Francis to have rejected the response to Archbishop Viganò that you desired.<br /><br />In fact, last month via his third "testimony," Archbishop Viganò revealed his true motivation behind his attack against Pope Francis — actually, as Cardinal Müller noted, Archbishop Viganò's real victim is Holy Mother Church.<br /><br />Archbishop Viganò revealed that he went public with his attack for one simple reason:<br /><br />He despises Pope Francis' approach to theology.<br /><br />Archbishop Viganò did not speak out for victims of sexual abuse. He didn't speak out for the alleged victims of Archbishop McCarrick.<br /><br />Archbishop Viganò launched his attack against Pope Francis — ultimately, Holy Mother Church — for the following reason:<br /><br />He said of Pope Francis:<br /><br />"...when the successor of Peter is negligent in exercising his principal mission, which is to confirm the brothers in the faith and in sound moral doctrine. When he then exacerbates the crisis by contradictory or perplexing statements about these doctrines, the confusion is worsened.<br /><br />"Therefore I spoke."<br />====================================================================================<br /><br />Archbishop Viganò is at odds with Pope Francis doctrinally. He, and his "V for Vigano" Pope Francis-hating right-wing supporters, are enraged at Pope Francis in regard to doctrine.<br /><br />That is what this is about.<br /><br />Deo gratias for Pope Francis' holy and wise handling of Archbishop Viganò's nonsense.<br /><br />Pax.<br /><br />Mark ThomasMark Thomasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-77750177798441234322018-11-30T09:10:26.779-05:002018-11-30T09:10:26.779-05:00Father Fox,
It is MT's inveterate practice to...Father Fox,<br /><br />It is MT's inveterate practice to avoid answering direct questions and just swirl about cutting and pasting things in defense of his little god. For MT, the Pope is a golden calf, and MT's views on the papacy and its powers border on the heretical. In a way, you have to pity him. He has come of age at a time when the Catholic Faith has not been properly taught and handed down, and that is my biggest beef with Rome and the hierarchy. Rather than address the loss of faith in the Real Presence or the scandal of homosexuality in the clergy, they try to divert attention from their failures by pursuing secular matters such as "global warming" and "immigration" which are best left to the prudential judgment of the secular world. <br /><br />I place my faith more in priests like you and Father McDonald, than in the time servers and lackeys in the hierarchy who should just get off the planet. TJMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-61992844226950115522018-11-30T06:14:44.828-05:002018-11-30T06:14:44.828-05:00"Victims of abuse inflicted upon them by prie..."Victims of abuse inflicted upon them by priests have praised Pope Francis for the attention, concern, and care that he has provided the victims."<br /><br />Well, I know we will be inundated by some cut and paste quotes from a few people who said something positive, BUT, are you kidding me?<br /><br />Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01504517769804159508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-2212123182386505782018-11-29T23:50:12.690-05:002018-11-29T23:50:12.690-05:00Father Martin said..."And we'd really lik...Father Martin said..."And we'd really like it if Pope Francis would respond. I want him to say, not -- "I will not say a single word" about Archbishop McCarrick, but rather to say, "I want a complete, open and aggressive investigation, and I want everyone from the Holy See to the dioceses involved to cooperate fully."<br /><br />Father Martin, that is what you want the Pope to say. But is your way that which is best for the Church?<br /><br />I imagine that you have (or have had) parishioners who've wanted you to say or do "X". But you have followed a different path.<br /><br />Anyway, Cardinal Müller said in regard to Archbishop Viganò's "testimonies" that it is the cardinals, as representatives of the Church of Rome, who can help the Pope or ask the Pope for some explanations."<br /><br />"But this must take place in private, in the proper places, and without ever making a public controversy with attacks that end up questioning the credibility of the Church and her mission."<br /><br />I agree with Cardinal Müller.<br /><br />Pope Francis has responded responsibly to Archbishop Viganò (as well as the right-wing Pope Francis-hating force with which he's aligned).<br /><br />Pax.<br /><br />Mark ThomasMark Thomasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-18148909220878923692018-11-29T22:47:34.225-05:002018-11-29T22:47:34.225-05:00Fr Martin Fox said..."No, Mark, you are missi...Fr Martin Fox said..."No, Mark, you are missing the point; and doing a little bit of "spin" yourself. But we can also say, forthrightly, that something is very wrong, and needs attention, in how the Vatican is conducting business.<br /><br />"You have tried to maintain an "all is well" narrative for quite a while, dismissing those who have said, for some time, no, all is NOT well. And at least some of the time, you not only dismiss the concerns, but also label those raising them as anti-Francis. And, of course, you can always find someone who really fits that description if needed."<br /><br />Father, all has NOT been well within the Vatican from the founding of the Church of Rome to date.<br /><br />All has NEVER been well within the Church.<br /><br />Judas betrayed Jesus Christ...our first Pope denied Jesus Christ three times...countless laymen have betrayed Jesus Christ...homosexuals have been present within the Church from Her birth...<br /><br />...heresies and schisms have abounded within the Church. Over the centuries, tens upon tens of millions of Catholics have abandoned the Faith.<br /><br />Welcome to the Catholic Church.<br />==============================================================================<br /><br />Father, I noted on this thread that we have the right to express in charitable fashion our concerns to Pope Francis (and our bishops). But we do not have the right to spread lies and rebellion against Holy Mother Church and Her Pope. <br /><br />Folks who do so are anti-Pope Francis. More than that, as Cardinal Müller noted, Holy Mother Church is the ultimate victim here.<br /><br />Archbishop Viganò, along with leading right-wing, Pope Francis-hating bloggers who coordinated their "V is for Viganò" attack against Pope Francis during the Pope's final day in Ireland, are anti-Pope Francis. That is undeniable.<br /><br />They have placed a blackout upon Cardinal Müller defense of Pope Francis.<br /><br />It is undeniable that said folks traffic daily in attacks and the promotion of lies against the Vicar of Christ. Said folks will promote virtually any lie...any conspiracy concocted to defame Pope Francis.<br /><br />But they refuse to promote Cardinal Müller's having called out the garbage that<br />Archbishop Viganò concocted, then hurled, at Pope Francis.<br /><br />All is NOT well with Archbishop Viganò and the "V is for Viganò" Pope Francis-hating gang.<br /><br />I stand with Cardinal Müller and his loyalty to, and defense of, His Holiness Pope Francis.<br /><br />Cardinal Müller has shown us the Catholic way in regard to the manner in which should treat the Vicar of Christ.<br /><br />Pax.<br /><br />Mark ThomasMark Thomasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-21790649043034872572018-11-29T22:12:15.203-05:002018-11-29T22:12:15.203-05:00Mark, are you giving me the silent treatment? That...Mark, are you giving me the silent treatment? That's fine, but it will just be better all around if you just come out and say you aren't going to respond to me. Fr Martin Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01375628123126091747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-43748748424155038582018-11-29T21:48:24.176-05:002018-11-29T21:48:24.176-05:00Father McDonald said..."Mark, Cardinal Muelle...Father McDonald said..."Mark, Cardinal Mueller did not question the substance of many of the concerns of Archbishop Vigano, but he did question an Archbishop seeking to dismiss a pope, asking for a resignation. That was clearly wrong."<br /><br />Father, every news story that I've read in regard to Cardinal Müller's interview in question has characterized Cardinal Müller as having repudiated Archbishop Viganò's "testimonies" — defamation of Pope Francis.<br /><br />Anyway, the following is certain:<br /><br />-- Cardinal Müller repudiated Archbishop Viganò's call for Pope Francis to resign as Pope. (Archbishop backed off on that.)<br /><br />-- Cardinal Müller refused to support Archbishop Viganò's claim that a massive homosexual lobby exists within the Church.<br /><br />-- Cardinal Müller repudiated the public controversy that Archbishop Viganò instigated.<br /><br />-- Cardinal Müller noted that Holy Mother Church is the ultimate victim via Archbishop Viganò's attack/rebellion against Pope Francis.<br /><br />Pax.<br /><br />Mark ThomasMark Thomasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-21620557439779460692018-11-29T18:54:40.768-05:002018-11-29T18:54:40.768-05:00Victor said..."Mr Thomas and Cdl Mueller both...Victor said..."Mr Thomas and Cdl Mueller both seem to ignore the damage these predators have caused the victims, something which Absp Vagano keeps raising again and again to deaf ears at the Vatican."<br /><br />Deaf ears at the Vatican? I disagree with you. But one thing is certain in regard to the Vatican: His Holiness Pope Francis is well aware of the damage that has been inflicted upon the victims in question.<br /><br />Victims of abuse inflicted upon them by priests have praised Pope Francis for the attention, concern, and care that he has provided the victims.<br /><br />In addition, Cardinal O'Malley has noted that Pope Francis cares deeply for the victims in question.<br /><br />Cardinal O'Malley declared:<br /><br />"Accompanying the Holy Father at numerous meetings with survivors I have witnessed his pain of knowing the depth and breadth of the wounds inflicted on those who were abused and that the process of recovery can take a lifetime. <br /><br />"The Pope’s statements that there is no place in the life of the Church for those who would abuse children and that we must adhere to zero tolerance for these crimes are genuine and they are his commitment."<br /><br />Pax.<br /><br />Mark ThomasMark Thomasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-39600339822495348312018-11-29T18:51:26.308-05:002018-11-29T18:51:26.308-05:00Mark:
Was your last remark an answer to my questi...Mark:<br /><br />Was your last remark an answer to my question?Fr Martin Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01375628123126091747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-91071975738660450392018-11-29T17:21:46.023-05:002018-11-29T17:21:46.023-05:00We all have the right to ask the pope to resign! ...We all have the right to ask the pope to resign! This kids-glove treatment of the pope is a modern, post-Vatican One aberration.Tony Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10862727279147129707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-83501203790655131572018-11-29T17:11:33.892-05:002018-11-29T17:11:33.892-05:00Among major Catholic bloggers, Father McDonald is ...Among major Catholic bloggers, Father McDonald is almost alone in having publicized the support that Cardinal Müller has given to Pope Francis.<br /><br />The leading "traditional" Catholic bloggers have refused to publicize Cardinal Müller pro-Pope Francis comments in question.<br /><br />Said folks, as they hate the Vicar of Christ, traffic only in horrific negativity against Pope Francis.<br /><br />Again, had Cardinal Müller said anything that the "traditionalists" could have spun as having been negative toward the Holy Father, said folks would have granted "BREAKING" news status to Cardinal Müller's interview.<br /><br />The two-faced Pope Francis-hating right-wing has again demonstrated that their hatred of Pope Francis is profound...so much so that they will blackout anything positive that has surfaced in regard to Pope Francis.<br /><br />But once again, Father McDonald has demonstrated that he is a fair man. He did not attempt to hide Cardinal Müller's pro-Pope Francis comments from his (Father McDonald's) readers.<br /><br />Pax.<br /><br />Mark ThomasMark Thomasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-50141830023904123172018-11-29T14:56:00.864-05:002018-11-29T14:56:00.864-05:00Mark Thomas:
No, Mark, you are missing the point;...Mark Thomas:<br /><br />No, Mark, you are missing the point; and doing a little bit of "spin" yourself.<br /><br />You ignore what a lot of people are saying, including on this site.<br /><br />It's not about being "pro Pope Francis"; that's what you want it to be about, as in the case of so many others.<br /><br />Rather, it's about whether it's true -- as you and Mark Shea and others maintain -- that all is well in the Francis-led Vatican. And if anyone says otherwise, then you and these others label them as anti-Pope Francis.<br /><br />Cardinal Mueller's two interviews make the point: you can both say, the Pope is pope, we love him and appreciate him when he's right, and we can be careful in what we say about his governance...<br /><br />But we can also say, forthrightly, that something is very wrong, and needs attention, in how the Vatican is conducting business.<br /><br />You have tried to maintain an "all is well" narrative for quite a while, dismissing those who have said, for some time, no, all is NOT well. And at least some of the time, you not only dismiss the concerns, but also label those raising them as anti-Francis. And, of course, you can always find someone who really fits that description if needed.<br /><br />But quite a lot of us are simply alarmed. And we'd really like it if Pope Francis would respond. I want him to say, not -- "I will not say a single word" about Archbishop McCarrick, but rather to say, "I want a complete, open and aggressive investigation, and I want everyone from the Holy See to the dioceses involved to cooperate fully." But Pope Francis has actually said the first, and refused to say, or do, the second. He asked the media to investigate, but has anyone in the Vatican cooperated? Nope. <br /><br />Explain how wanting the pope to be the good guy, and lamenting that he is behaving like a bad guy, is being "anti Francis," please?Fr Martin Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01375628123126091747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-22642834687874546512018-11-29T13:28:45.751-05:002018-11-29T13:28:45.751-05:00Mr Thomas and Cdl Mueller both seem to ignore the ...Mr Thomas and Cdl Mueller both seem to ignore the damage these predators have caused the victims, something which Absp Vagano keeps raising again and again to deaf ears at the Vatican.<br />Yes, we are dealing with sins of priests against children, and as demonic as this is, secrecy has not worked out well to solve the problem as TJM above mentions, even making matters worse.<br />So a priest confesses his pedophile sins, and repents, only to have to confess them again and again, and this time sent elsewhere, only to have this recur again and again. In the meantime the victims, probably having turned against the Church with hostility, are being paid off with hard earned money from the church collection plates to keep them quiet. That is scandalous in this day and age.<br />The problem is the Vatican II church which has lowered her standards on sexual morality to conform to the modern world, and in doing so has increasingly become the international man-boy love club of our century so far:<br /><br />http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/unholy-activity-uncovered-at-holy-apostles-seminary?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+NCRegisterDailyBlog+National+Catholic+Register#When%3A2018-11-29+14%3A17%3A01 <br /><br />Why is it so hard to strive for Holy Priests the way the FSSP or even the SPPX do instead of having priests dance around the periphery materially helping the poor if they can instead of spiritually helping them even more which is what they are called to do? <br />Victornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-8705608336758983282018-11-29T09:46:45.377-05:002018-11-29T09:46:45.377-05:00Father McDonald,
You may want to read this:
http...Father McDonald,<br /><br />You may want to read this:<br /><br />https://spectator.org/the-stench-from-cupichchurch/<br /><br />Unfortunately, I am stuck with him but I don't give him any money any longerTJMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-57393536402969741542018-11-29T08:42:08.617-05:002018-11-29T08:42:08.617-05:00In other words, His Holiness has a penchant to enr...In other words, His Holiness has a penchant to enrage people, including cardinals who work closest with him and who should be his primary go-to for advice behind closed doors.Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-54485792147878772492018-11-29T08:28:16.943-05:002018-11-29T08:28:16.943-05:00With that said, it would do well for Pope Francis ...With that said, it would do well for Pope Francis to acknowledge what a lightening rod for polarization in the Church His Holiness has been. It is unprecedented in modern times. Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-48699939578801780642018-11-29T08:27:30.991-05:002018-11-29T08:27:30.991-05:00Mark, Cardinal Mueller did not question the substa...Mark, Cardinal Mueller did not question the substance of many of the concerns of Archbishop Vigano, but he did question an Archbishop seeking to dismiss a pope, asking for a resignation. That was clearly wrong.<br /><br />And yes, I do think that concerns Cardinals have with Pope Francis should be aired in a respectful way and not try to trump the pope as the Supreme Pontiff of the Church. There is a reason for the word "supreme." <br /><br />The only one who can remove a bad pope is God pure and simple or the pope, if in sound mind, without coercion from either secular or religious entities decides to resign.<br /><br />In the meantime, we rely upon the Holy Spirit who protects the Church from complete destruction from the fires of hell. <br /><br />But I do think for anyone to say that one cannot voice a concern about the leadership of any pope, bishop, priest or deacon, that is is formed out of the clericalism that Pope Francis condemns. <br /><br />The criticism, though, must be based upon the Deposit of Faith, which is not hidden and out in the open, there is no Gnosticism in the Catholic Church where only a privileged view know something that no one else knows. It must be based upon canon law also but even here the Pope is the Supreme legislator. <br /><br />The greatest problem with those not comfortable with Pope Francis are their mortal sins against charity and yes unless they repent they will be held accountable by God.Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.com