tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post2564953743927177140..comments2024-03-28T20:30:10.681-04:00Comments on southern orders: THE RECONCILIATION AND RENEWAL OF THE ORDINARY FORM OF THE MASS IN CONTINUITY WITH THE EXTRAORDINARY FORM OF THE MASSFr. Allan J. McDonaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-68327506790679564852017-07-17T08:21:11.963-04:002017-07-17T08:21:11.963-04:00Victor,
Certainly. As an introverted sort, I appr...Victor,<br /><br />Certainly. As an introverted sort, I appreciate silence more than most. I was imagining music--and here I don't mean hymns, really, but Mozart or other suitable Mass settings--and ad orientem worship as an alternative to syrupy hymns and Father oogling the congregation from behind the altar. I can also see doing the whole thing silently except for the parts that are spoken in a louder or chanted. <br /><br />I'll admit that the Low Mass of the EF I've seen stateside is a bit much, though, even for me; in Nantes, the congregation says the server's responses, too, and that's a bit closer to what I'm used to seeing coming from an Anglican background.RSC+https://www.blogger.com/profile/00639369749327986414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-32703970134638563602017-07-14T11:00:24.173-04:002017-07-14T11:00:24.173-04:00RSC+
What you say is interesting. This is one of t...RSC+<br />What you say is interesting. This is one of the big differences in the TLM celebrated before the Council and nowdays when music is involved.<br />It seems that as time moved more and more into the modern age, people became more and more afraid of silence in a more and more noisy world. Even in the Mass, music is used to cover up the silence. But this is precisely what Cardinal Sarah has been warning us about, that we need Silence in a noisy world. The power of Silence is so great that it casts fear into many people, because it has the power to awaken in them the consciousness of their very being, and can lead to an experience of the mysterium tremendum et fascinans, not something one may be prepared for on a lazy summer morning. Victornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-1172339946504372592017-07-14T09:03:00.833-04:002017-07-14T09:03:00.833-04:00People will fuss about using Latin exclusively in ...People will fuss about using Latin exclusively in the Roman Canon, but this is a shiny object that obscures the deeper controversy of using sotto voce for the Canon. If the priest is required to use a low voice, it doesn't much matter what language he's using; the congregation won't hear it. <br /><br />If we are to go down that path, I'd imagine music during the canon would again be normative. If my geography, as it were, is correct, you'd essentially have music from the Orate Fratres straight through to the Lord's Prayer. If we're chanting everything, there would be music or singing from the Orate Fratres to the end of the Agnus Dei, or possibly even to the end of those receiving communion. I could go for that. RSC+https://www.blogger.com/profile/00639369749327986414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-46975608326170418932017-07-14T08:20:19.724-04:002017-07-14T08:20:19.724-04:00Wait, why would we have to have the Prayers at the...Wait, why would we have to have the Prayers at the Foot of the Altar OR the Right of Sprinkling? Is out attention span so short that we can't have both? I have to say that I think we should get rid of all the options and have more things made mandatory. Agnesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-70400226818515684742017-07-14T06:17:15.764-04:002017-07-14T06:17:15.764-04:00In case you haven't noticed Pope Francis never...In case you haven't noticed Pope Francis never genuflect during the Mass so I highly doubt he would restore the double genuflection. Francis has also allowed others to teach in his name that receiving the Eucharist in the state of grace is no longer an absolute. The Eucharist isn't for the perfect....ok. So I really really doubt that a pope who has done the incredible damage to the office of the papacy, the sacraments of the Eucharist, Pennance, Marriage and the Priesthood like Francis has done gives a dam about fixing liturgical problems. I mean he hasn't even abolished priestly celibacy yet or concelebrated publicly with a Protestant yet. Well I'm not including Kasper, Daneels or Wuerl, Spadaro or Marx in that last one. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-34744721629023136292017-07-13T21:13:36.410-04:002017-07-13T21:13:36.410-04:00With regard to Latin usage, I would also include t...With regard to Latin usage, I would also include the Confiteor as well as the Ecce Agnus Dei, both significant parts that are said by the people. <br /><br />Ad Orientem should be required and the high altar restored. Aside from the elevations, it is difficult to see/participate much beyond watching the priest reading from the missal, being perturbed by exaggerated orans postures (excluding the posture employed by the Dominicans) and consuming the consecrated host/precious blood and at times, that consumption is totally undignified. We should all be unified in prayer from one side of the altar. Currently, I'm reminded of going into a store where the salesperson and customer interact from their respective sides of the counter. <br /><br />At the end of the day, one should be able to attend mass in either form where differences are limited to minor details. The chasm that exists between the two forms should be closed or, the addition of these types of appendicies, though beneficial, will be less impactful from the perspective of re-establishing continuity. <br /><br />Last, just do it. Stop talking about it. Don't form a commission to study it for years on end. Had the changes envisioned by the counsel actually been implemented, the people would have been at peace and the experienced upheaval limited to non-existent. Just do it already. ByzRushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11543580976814745615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-13369216042016508192017-07-13T17:11:44.049-04:002017-07-13T17:11:44.049-04:00Wonderful...but when will the talking end? That i...Wonderful...but when will the talking end? That is, for decades, there has been endless talk from Churchmen about the need to restore sanity to the Roman Liturgy (Novus Ordo) which almost everywhere, by numerous accounts, throughout the Latin Church is in a state of collapse.<br /><br />During a 2013 A.D. press conference, even His Holiness Pope Francis offered the following:<br /><br />"In the Orthodox Churches they have kept that pristine liturgy, so beautiful. We have lost a bit the sense of adoration. They keep, they praise God, they adore God, they sing, time doesn’t count. God is the center, and this is a richness that I would like to say on this occasion in which you ask me this question. <br /><br />"Once, speaking of the Western Church, of Western Europe, especially the Church that has grown most, they said this phrase to me: “Lux ex oriente, ex occidente luxus.” <br /><br />"Instead you keep this beauty of God at the center, the reference. When one reads Dostoyevsky – I believe that for us all he must be an author to read and reread, because he has wisdom – one perceives what the Russian spirit is, the Eastern spirit. It’s something that will do us so much good. <br /><br />"We are in need of this renewal, of this fresh air of the East, of this light of the East. John Paul II wrote it in his Letter. But so many times the luxus of the West makes us lose the horizon."<br /><br />Dear Churchmen...stop talking...take action. Do something other than offer talks. Just repair the collapsed condition of Latin Church liturgy. Come on.<br /><br />Pax.<br /><br />Mark ThomasMark Thomasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-35931221472046958142017-07-13T15:40:17.889-04:002017-07-13T15:40:17.889-04:00One of the interesting differences between the EF ...One of the interesting differences between the EF and OF is how fast the consecration comes in the EF. The priest does not wait for the Sanctus to be sung, but proceeds immediately to "say" the Canon. Often, just as the Sanctus is finished being sung, the bells sound to alert everyone of the coming of the most sacred moment of the Mass, the consecration which occurs moments later. This raises the issue of why the Roman Canon is avoided so much in the NO, since it is very long especially if it is recited slowly for everyone to hear, while in the EF it effectively appears much shorter for the people. Victornoreply@blogger.com