tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post1239177807761346464..comments2024-03-28T01:50:39.781-04:00Comments on southern orders: I WONDER IF THE CDW READS MY BLOG BECAUSE THEIR SPLENDID APOPLOGETIC FOR POPE FRANCIS FEET SOUNDS LIKE MINE BUT WITH MORE HISTORY!Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comBlogger142125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-10550867847128814582016-02-05T20:27:14.453-05:002016-02-05T20:27:14.453-05:00"To publicly lay hands on a member of the opp..."To publicly lay hands on a member of the opposite sex in all societies is normally restricted to a marital or close familial relationship." <br /><br />No it's not.<br /><br />Unrelated men and women greet each other with a handshake, or with a totally chaste and socially acceptable cheek kiss. "Cheek kissing is a ritual or social kissing gesture to indicate friendship, perform a greeting, to confer congratulations, to comfort someone, to show respect, or to indicate sexual or romantic interest." Italians, for example, and many Mediterranean cultures are far more demonstrative. Such "laying hands" on others is not the least bit offensive.<br /><br />Just because you and Bishop Schneider find it offensive and a sign of "lax morals" doesn't mean that anyone else does.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-71342265027343146162016-02-05T13:17:27.542-05:002016-02-05T13:17:27.542-05:00Well, anonymous, I don't agree. Except for li...Well, anonymous, I don't agree. Except for liberals in the Church, I don't know of any society who would agree with a man washing and kissing women's feet in public or vice versa. To publicly lay hands on a member of the opposite sex in all societies is normally restricted to a marital or close familial relationship. Otherwise it is frowned upon. Of course there are lax morals everywhere, and those who engage in loose moral activities show no common sense. The good bishop after all is tying his remarks to common sense, and even in the liberal society that we live in there are some still who exhibit common sense and observe common decency.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-21682039444673272042016-02-03T19:10:29.529-05:002016-02-03T19:10:29.529-05:00Maybe in Tokmok or Celerina it is considered "...Maybe in Tokmok or Celerina it is considered "by every person of common sense" that the public washing of women's feet is improper or indecent. But this is hardly the case "in all cultures."<br /><br />This is a gross exaggeration.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-63207982696897984152016-02-03T08:09:44.220-05:002016-02-03T08:09:44.220-05:00To add to the record number of posts here, Bishop ...To add to the record number of posts here, Bishop Schneider's makes some very pertinent comments on the washing of women's feet.<br /><br /><br />"Rorate Caeli: Speaking of typical Catholics, what will the typical parish priest face now that he didn’t face before the Synod began? What pressures, such as the washing of women’s feet on Maundy Thursday after the example of Francis, will burden the parish priest even more than he is burdened today?<br /><br />H.E. Schneider: A typical Catholic parish priest should know well the perennial sense of the Catholic faith, the perennial sense as well of the laws of the Catholic liturgy and, knowing this, he should have an interior sureness and firmness. He should always remember the Catholic principle of discernment: “Quod semper, quod ubique, quod ab omnibus”, i.e. “What has been always, everywhere and from all” believed and practiced. <br /><br />The categories “always, everywhere, all” are not to be understood in an arithmetical, but in a moral sense. A concrete criterion for discernment is this: “Does this change in a doctrinal affirmation, in a pastoral or in a liturgical practice constitute a rupture with the centuries-old, or even with the millennial past? And does this innovation really make the faith shine clearer and brighter? Does this liturgical innovation bring to us closer the sanctity of God, or manifest deeper and more beautiful the Divine mysteries? Does this disciplinary innovation really increase a greater zeal for the holiness of life?” <br /><br />As concretely to the innovation of washing the feet of women during the Holy Mass of the Last Supper on Holy Thursday: This Holy Mass celebrates the commemoration of the institution of the sacraments of the Eucharist and the Priesthood. Therefore, the foot washing of women along with the men not only distracts from the main focus on Eucharist and on Priesthood, but generates confusion regarding the historical symbolism of the “twelve” and of the apostles being of male sex. The universal tradition of the Church never allowed the foot washing during the Holy Mass, but instead outside of Mass, in a special ceremony. <br /><br />By the way: the public washing and usually also kissing of the feet of women on the part of a man, in our case, of a priest or a bishop, is considered by every person of common sense in all cultures as being improper and even indecent. Thanks be to God no priest or bishop is obliged to wash publicly the feet of women on Holy Thursday, for there is no binding norm for it, and the foot washing itself is only facultative"<br /><br />So I, at least, am in good company with the good bishop when I said too earlier on this blog that the washing and kissing of women's feet is indecent and could be an occasion of sin for some priests for obvious reasons. I think good priests would do well to consider well the words of the good bishop on this subject.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-22173871805774006582016-01-30T20:51:26.248-05:002016-01-30T20:51:26.248-05:00Gene:
“Anon 2, so what happened to all this wonde...Gene:<br /><br />“Anon 2, so what happened to all this wonderful Muslim civilization? I read about it, too.”<br /><br />This is a great question and a fascinating one. I cannot give you an authoritative answer to it (can anyone?). I suspect, however, that the reasons for the decline are multiple, both external and internal, and also intertwined with the reasons for the rise of the West. In preparing this response I did a little bit of research and found the following book that seems to offer a balanced introduction to this complex issue:<br /><br />http://www.mohammedamin.com/Reviews/Muslim-civilisation-the-causes-of-decline-and-the-need-for-reform.html<br /><br />I would also note that it is an over-generalization to say that Islam is “lived out in a sand pit” given that only a minority of Muslims lives in the “sand pit” (by which I assume you mean the Middle East and North Africa).<br /><br /><br />Anonymous 2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-71424478450855349692016-01-30T19:45:35.166-05:002016-01-30T19:45:35.166-05:00Anon 2, so what happened to all this wonderful Mus...Anon 2, so what happened to all this wonderful Muslim civilization? I read about it, too. It seems it deteriorated into a savage religion lived out in a sand pit among a wretched race. Western civilization went on to dominate the world and do great things. Yeah, Richard the First killed a lot of Muslims...about 2700 in one day were beheaded while he sat and watched. Where is he when we need him...Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-42071635493585163292016-01-30T19:40:16.943-05:002016-01-30T19:40:16.943-05:00It has to be up there!😉It has to be up there!😉Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-49439034971163412922016-01-30T19:25:51.125-05:002016-01-30T19:25:51.125-05:00Father McDonald,
Is this a record number of comme...Father McDonald,<br /><br />Is this a record number of comments?Rood Screenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09816036539243214384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-15206753270083620332016-01-30T19:22:48.505-05:002016-01-30T19:22:48.505-05:00Anonymous"
"How much of St Joan's b...<br />Anonymous"<br /><br />"How much of St Joan's battlefield prowess is "pious legend" and how much is factual? Can we know?"<br /><br />We know from the testimony of those who fought along side her. Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05809499822558662728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-6989081101835778072016-01-30T19:22:30.797-05:002016-01-30T19:22:30.797-05:00George
'Her [Joan's] feast day had to be ...George<br /><br />'Her [Joan's] feast day had to be rotated off to make way for others'. In fact it was only ever a local feast, the general calendar for 30 May giving St Felix, Pope and Martyr. This survived the 1960 revision (albeit as an option) but the Novus Ordo calendar, devised by what Bouyer called a 'trio of maniacs' has nothing at all on this day.<br /><br />If I find myself in Paris at the end of May I shall certainly repair to the church of St-Eugène et Ste-Cécile in the 9e arrondissement where they use the 1962 Propre de Paris and are sure to give the Maid her due; and yes, I'll sing Domine salvam fac Galliam and pray to St Joan for the restoration of the monarchy and for the canonization of Marcel Lefebvre.<br /><br />Chaque homme civilisé a deux patries: la sienne et la France.<br /><br />John Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027156691859606002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-80096854743668793112016-01-30T19:21:14.189-05:002016-01-30T19:21:14.189-05:00Anon2
"First, who said it was one-off? Seco...<br />Anon2<br /><br /> "First, who said it was one-off? Second, several of the other competitors had years of experience in shooting, and at least one, my roommate, had served two years in the French army (so, not an amateur). "<br /><br />Well. You didn't mention the proficiency of the other competitors in your comment. However, do you claim that you can consistantly duplicate what you did ala Joan, according to the testimony of those who fought along side her? If so, I am sure there is someone, somewhere in the Macon area equal to the task of taking you on at the firung range. <br /><br />"I am with John on this—I don’t believe God took sides in the Hundred Years War."<br /><br />God was not against the English as such, I agree. If it had been the Germans, and not the English, one could also have said the same. What it says to me is that the French needed Divine intervention to drive the English out. Joan's main objective was the insatllation of Charles VII as King of France. This was the task given to her by her heavenly advisors which she understood to be the command of God.Within 78 years of her death, Henry VIII ascended to the Throne of England. Could it be that what transpired under Joan and the eventual outcome after her death prevented Anglican Protestantism from becoming the dominant religion of northern France?<br /><br /> Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05809499822558662728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-1309504808204217012016-01-30T17:11:04.904-05:002016-01-30T17:11:04.904-05:00How much of St Joan's battlefield prowess is &...How much of St Joan's battlefield prowess is "pious legend" and how much is factual? Can we know? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-91439267564647113732016-01-30T16:26:16.471-05:002016-01-30T16:26:16.471-05:00Gene:
As I think you know (unless you skipped tha...Gene:<br /><br />As I think you know (unless you skipped that part in your reading), while (for example) the Franks under Charles Martel, Pepin, and Charlemagne were running around invading the territories of neighboring tribal nations to get more land and “spread the faith” (chopping the heads of captured prisoners and committing other “barbarisms” along the way for good measure), the “savages” as you call them were experiencing a “Golden Age” of high civilization, with advances (and often great advances) in mathematics, biology, medicine and healthcare, anatomy, optics, astronomy, trade and commerce, navigation, education, philosophy, art, architecture, etc.<br /><br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age<br /><br />Even the “Carolingian renaissance” does not even come close by comparison:<br /><br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolingian_Renaissance<br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymous 2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-23714625738862976292016-01-30T15:59:59.666-05:002016-01-30T15:59:59.666-05:00George:
“You missed the mark on that comment.”
...George:<br /><br />“You missed the mark on that comment.” <br /><br />I like the pun. =). However, I don’ think I did miss the mark. First, who said it was one-off? Second, several of the other competitors had years of experience in shooting, and at least one, my roommate, had served two years in the French army (so, not an amateur). <br /><br />Third, you cited “her ability to place and aim cannons, as well as predict the target of enemy artillery,” explaining that “the siege cannon had a cast iron barrel and its overall weight was 1,350 lbs. The cannonballs were made from granite and weighed between 10 and 12 lbs. The range was measured at 2,200 yards.” <br /><br />I mentioned my own performance, not to suggest my brilliant military expertise, or indeed even my expertise in shooting—and in any event, as readers of this blog know, I am not good at much that is “practical” requiring the use of hands, as in woodworking or metalworking, for example—but because my personal experience suggests that even a “klutz” (aka “peasant”) like me can have certain natural abilities that impress even experienced experts. That is the point. And I strongly suspect that one can have a natural ability to place and “sight” a piece of artillery. The size and weight of the cannon are beside the point. What is needed is a certain “feel” or “sense” for angle, distance, and perhaps weather conditions. And, for all we know, she had experiences as a peasant that may have helped to develop these abilities, not with cannon perhaps but through observation of analogous phenomena. I express no opinion about the horse. =)<br /><br />Anyway, consider the alternative explanation: that God intervened to guide her placing and sighting of the cannon that then mangled the English soldiers. I am with John on this—I don’t believe God took sides in the Hundred Years War, even if (and it might be a big “if”) the French participation satisfied the criteria for a “just war.”<br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymous 2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-4912907449727186872016-01-30T14:20:58.652-05:002016-01-30T14:20:58.652-05:00John:
St.Joan of Arc certainly presents a differen...John:<br />St.Joan of Arc certainly presents a different case in being considered a martyr.<br /><br />An inquisitorial court authorized by Pope Callixtus III examined her trial, debunked the charges against her, pronounced her innocent, and declared her a martyr. The purpose of the trial was to investigate whether the trial of condemnation and its verdict had been handled justly and according to canon law. Investigations started with an inquest by Guillaume Bouillé, a theologian and former rector of the University of Paris (Sorbonne). A formal appeal followed in November 1455. The appellate process involved clergy from throughout Europe and observed standard court procedure. A panel of theologians analyzed testimony from 115 witnesses. <br />A final summary was drawn up in June 1456, which describes Joan as a martyr. She was declared innocent on July 7, 1456. The Inquisitor's summary of evidence for the case describes her as a martyr who had been executed by a court which was itself in violation of the Church's rules.<br /><br />In rotating off Joan of Arc's own feast day from the liturgical calendar under Pope Paul VI, the Vatican itself explicitly confirmed the decision by explaining that Joan is still considered a, quote, "heroic" saint and martyr listed in what then became newest edition of the Martyrologium Romanum itself, but as a European and a French woman in a calendar previously glutted with French saints, her feast day had to be rotated off to make way for others. <br /><br />She is among other things a patron saint of martyrs.<br /><br />Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05809499822558662728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-48776221505333237252016-01-30T13:08:19.325-05:002016-01-30T13:08:19.325-05:00George
St Joan is commemorated as a Virgin, not a...George<br /><br />St Joan is commemorated as a Virgin, not as a Martyr, and white vestments are used at her Mass. She was declared Venerable by Leo XIII in 1894, beatified by Pius X in 1909 and canonized by Benedict XV in 1920 - fast progress indeed. <br /><br />Ironically she was condemned and canonized alike for political rather than religious reasons.<br /><br />I don't believe God took sides in the Hundred Years' War, a dynastic contest between two Catholic nations. Joan's portrayal in Shakespeare's Henry VI Part One isn't exactly flattering. In the end, it proved impossible for the Kings of England, whether Angevin or Lancastrian, to hold on to their lands in France.<br /><br />Later popes, confronted with the aggressive France of Richelieu (who entered the Thirty Years' War on the Protestant side), Louis XIV and Napoleon Bonaparte, might have wished the English had been successful.John Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027156691859606002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-26413985551012052262016-01-30T10:57:39.979-05:002016-01-30T10:57:39.979-05:00Jan
Right. These things can take a long time to o...Jan<br /><br />Right. These things can take a long time to our way of seeing things, but what is a 1000 years to God?<br /><br /><br />St Joan of Arc was a favorite of Therese of Lisieux. So she was honored by the faithful before she was even beatified. Interestingly enough, they were both beatified and canonized within a few years of each other. Both are Co-patrons of France.Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05809499822558662728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-88114970235241022892016-01-30T10:49:38.526-05:002016-01-30T10:49:38.526-05:00Anon2
"There was a shooting competition, whi...<br />Anon2<br /><br />"There was a shooting competition, which I won, although I had never shot a rifle before, beating about 30 other people ... " I did not ascribe my performance to divine assistance but to a certain innate ability, a gift from God to be sure as all our gifts are but no more than that. Why couldn’t the same have been true of St. Joan? "<br /><br />Really now Anon2. You can't seriously compare your one -off performance against amateurs to what St Joan of Arc accomplished. She demonstrated proficiency which impressed trained military officers and she did this time after time across many battlefields. <br /><br />You missed the mark on that comment.Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05809499822558662728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-52055149081105083372016-01-30T09:41:29.810-05:002016-01-30T09:41:29.810-05:00I don't know if one can rightly say one who is...I don't know if one can rightly say one who is already declared "Blessed" can be said to be "languishing"...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-28057730701156098662016-01-30T08:32:10.487-05:002016-01-30T08:32:10.487-05:00As regards it taking almost 500 years to canonise ...As regards it taking almost 500 years to canonise St Joan of Arc, it has been pointed out:<br /><br />A delay of several hundred years is not uncommon among Catholic saints, even those who were never subject to much controversy. It took some 500 years to consider Pope Silverius a saint;<br /><br />400 years to canonize St. Thomas More;<br /><br />707 years for St. Agnes of Prague,<br /><br />364 years for St. Nicholas Owen;<br /><br />409 years for St. Agnes of Montepulciano,<br /><br />448 years for St. Norbert,<br /><br />500 years for St. Agnes of Assisi,<br /><br />316 years for St. John Southworth;<br /><br />717 years for St. Hermann Joseph,<br /><br />364 years for St. Thomas Garnet; etc.<br /><br />St. Hildegard still has not been officially canonized after some 830 years, although she is considered a saint and in fact was considered as such during her own lifetime.<br /><br />St John Paul II The Great has had the title "saint maker" leveled him for canonising too many saints. But a look at the list of saints he canonised many of them had languished as blesseds for centuries. There is something to be said about not waiting too long to canonise because the relevance of holiness of what these saints may be lost on future generations.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-73292315720347815232016-01-30T06:52:15.563-05:002016-01-30T06:52:15.563-05:00Anon 2, Oh, and FYI, the 11th century is considere...Anon 2, Oh, and FYI, the 11th century is considered the beginning of the High Middle Ages (although, granted, not so high in every respect).Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-24065528189804742772016-01-30T06:47:43.445-05:002016-01-30T06:47:43.445-05:00Anon 2, RE: 9th-11th centuries: Europe was growing...Anon 2, RE: 9th-11th centuries: Europe was growing and expanding, Western art and philosophy were moving slowly forward, and agriculture was developing new methods. The savages, as always, had their eyes on conquering the West and spreading their savage, heretical religion.Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-76372787381130232992016-01-30T01:30:35.926-05:002016-01-30T01:30:35.926-05:00John, I don't have anything to present to disp...<br />John, I don't have anything to present to dispute what you say about Joan of Arc's canonization. One can certainly wonder why after almost 500 years had passed since her death, that it was decided the time had finally arrived to canonize her. One thing that is not emphasized enough is that by all accounts she was a person of strong spiritual conviction, as well as being courageous on the battlefield. She drove away the "camp followers" -the prostitutes who tagged along with the army- and she was not above using physical force to do so. She upbraided some of her troops for cursing and not attending Mass. God and the Catholic faith were not placed on the back shelf of her life.<br />Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05809499822558662728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-62195284687781745092016-01-29T22:54:13.019-05:002016-01-29T22:54:13.019-05:00John:
I know it well. Having lived in Chandler’s ...John:<br /><br />I know it well. Having lived in Chandler’s Ford until I went off to university, Winchester Cathedral (including St Joan’s statue) will always have a special place in my heart and even now remains a place of pilgrimage for me whenever I return to the U.K.<br /><br />Anonymous 2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-39949138435625626222016-01-29T22:49:50.540-05:002016-01-29T22:49:50.540-05:00Gene:
And just what were these “savages” doing an...Gene:<br /><br />And just what were these “savages” doing and just what were we “civilized” people doing, say, in the ninth, tenth, and eleventh centuries?<br /><br />Anonymous 2noreply@blogger.com