tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post1220579893149750848..comments2024-03-28T09:14:32.869-04:00Comments on southern orders: WAS POPE FRANCIS REFERRING TO SOME CATHOLICS AND NON CATHOLICS IN MACON WHEN HE REFERRED TO PELAGIANISM HERESIES? I REPORT; YOU DECIDE!Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-8157592137206035652014-05-30T12:26:56.442-04:002014-05-30T12:26:56.442-04:00Catholic Mission
I'm not sure I follow your d...Catholic Mission<br /><br />I'm not sure I follow your drift. It's not Dr Shaw's brief to make doctrinal statements. What he does do is take to task certain clerics like Monsignor Basil Loftus who use the Catholic media to peddle heresy.<br /><br />You seem to be suggesting that those who promote the traditional liturgy have sold their souls to the Devil in order to do so. I have to admit that I have not been over-impressed by Vincent Nichols as Archbishop of Westminster, but that is beside the point. It's better to work with the hierarchy than to set yourselves up against them.<br /><br />John Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027156691859606002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-75525553214628666112014-05-30T03:48:17.950-04:002014-05-30T03:48:17.950-04:00As I am sure Pater Ignotus and Father McDonald can...As I am sure Pater Ignotus and Father McDonald can well explain to us, the Catholic Church does not maintain that you have to be a Catholic to be saved. <br /><br />Lionel:<br />Yes it does in Ad Gentes 7 which says all need faith and baptism for salvation.<br />This is the same message of Dominus Iesus 20.<br />Ad Gentes 7 is placed in the Catechism of the Catholic Church under the title Outside the Church No Salvation.<br /><br />But to get you started please read the Catechism sections 839-848 and mediate on the following passage in section quoted in section 847:<br /><br />“Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may achieve eternal salvation.”<br /><br />Lionel:<br />The above passage does not state that these cases are visible to us, seen in the flesh. So these cases, are not exceptions to Ad Gentes 7.<br /><br />De facto in reality, objectively, all need 'faith and baptism' to go to Heaven and avoid Hell.<br /><br />De jure ( in principle) hypothetically, in theory, a person can be saved in invincible ignorance or with implicit desire, as known to God.This is probability, a possibility but not a known exception in 2014.<br /><br />If you are inferring that a possibility is a known case in 2014 it is irrational. We cannot see the dead and neither does any magisterial text ( Vatican Council II etc) make this claim.<br /><br />But of course all are saved only through Jesus Christ.<br /><br />Lionel:<br />Yes all are saved in Jesus Christ those who are saved with 'faith and baptism' and those with implicit desire etc.<br /><br />Those persons who are saved with implicit desire ( baptism of desire) are not visible for us but invisible. So they are irrelevant to the traditional teaching which says all need to be Catholic,( with faith and the baptism of water,which is visible) for salvation.<br /><br />All adults need faith and baptism for salvation in 2014 and you and I do not know a single exception.<br /><br />Catholic Missionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06025127342963192930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-90041179146323861252014-05-29T14:53:33.467-04:002014-05-29T14:53:33.467-04:00Catholic Mission:
As I am sure Pater Ignotus and ...Catholic Mission:<br /><br />As I am sure Pater Ignotus and Father McDonald can well explain to us, the Catholic Church does not maintain that you have to be a Catholic to be saved. <br /><br />But to get you started please read the Catechism sections 839-848 and mediate on the following passage in section quoted in section 847:<br /><br />“Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may achieve eternal salvation.”<br /><br />But of course all are saved only through Jesus Christ.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymous 2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-12158889212525035562014-05-29T07:05:14.258-04:002014-05-29T07:05:14.258-04:00Here is another dictatorship of relativisim and fa...Here is another dictatorship of relativisim and falsehood. It has the support of Pope Francis and the Jesuits.<br /><br />May 29, 2014 <br /><br />Cardinal Nicols and FIUV are telling a falsehood. Why do rank and file Catholics have to accept it?<br /><br />Cardinal Vince Nicols the President of the Catholic Bishops Conference of England and Wales (CBCEW) and the officials of the Federation International Una Voce (FIUV) are telling a lie for political or personal reasons. Why do the rank and file Catholics have to accept it ? They have to accept a factual error because they have not learnt theology ?<br /><br />James Bogle, the President and Joseph Shaw, theTreasurer of the FIUV are British.It is a falsehood for the FIUV and Cardinal Nicols to suggest that there are known, visible- in- the- flesh persons in 2014 , saved with 'a ray of the Truth' (Nostra Aetate 2, Vatican Council II ) and ' seeds of the Word'(Ad Gentes 7). <br /> <br />On the CBCEW website there is a video which states all do not need to convert into the Catholic Church , according to Vatican Council II. No text in Vatican Council II states this !<br /><br />Joseph Shaw, the Chairman of the Latin Mass Society of England and Wales abets in this falsehood.He is not willing to say that every one needs to convert into the Catholic Church in the present times to avoid Hell and there are no known exceptions.He is a lecturer at Oxford and this would put him at odds with his colleagues and of course the Cardinal-president of the CBCEW. <br /> <br />So like Gavin D'Costa on the CBCEW video, for Joseph Shaw, Vatican Council II, Nostra Aeate 2 refers to the deceased in Heaven, visible on earth.The deceased-saved would have to be visible for them to be exceptions to all needing to convert in 2014.<br />For political reasons Cardinal Vincent Nicols recently permitted Catholic politicians who support same sex marriages to receive the Eucharist at Holy Mass in England.This is Sacrilegious Communion.He also expects lay Catholics to accept nonsense about the baptism of desire etc being exceptions to the traditional interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus- as if these cases were visible to him on earth to be exceptions.How can they be exceptions to the traditional interpretation of the dogma by Fr.Leonard Feeney of Boston, when we cannot see any of these cases in the flesh ? <br /> <br />According to the CBCEW website Catholics are told to leave this 'theologial issue' to the 'experts' in inter religious dialogue. Gavin D'Costa a Catholic professor of theology at the University of Bristol, who claims he can see the deceased in England, is considered an 'expert'.He is a consultant with the CBCEW. <br /> <br />Traditionalists in England, including Joseph Shaw, who lectures on philosophical and other subjects , are going along with this misinformation.FIUV supports this misinformation about the Catholic Church. Lay Catholics who do not know theology have to swallow this objective error since the cardinal at Westminister wants them to do so. -Lionel Andrades <br /><br />Foederatio Internationalis Una Voce official has nothing to say http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/05/foederatio-internationalis-una-voce.html#links <br /><br />Winter for the Catholic Faith in England http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/05/winter-for-catholic-faith-in-england.html#links<br /> <br /> If someone is saved with ' a ray of the Truth' (Nostra Aetate 2) it is not known in 2014, so NA 2 does not contradict AG 7 or extra ecclesiam nulla salus http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/05/if-someone-is-saved-with-ray-of-truth.html#links <br /> <br />Orthodox Catholics have no comments on the University of Bristol video<br />http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/05/orthodox-catholics-have-no-comments-on.html#links<br /><br />http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/05/cardinal-nicols-and-fiuv-are-telling.html#linksCatholic Missionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06025127342963192930noreply@blogger.com