tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post8391231780524663085..comments2024-03-28T20:30:10.681-04:00Comments on southern orders: ADORATION OR IMITATION OF CHRIST? IT'S NOT EITHER/OR BUT BOTH/AND (AND THE PROGRESSIVE CATHOLIC'S IDOLATRY OF VATICAN II WHEN THEY ACCLAIM THAT VATICAN II ISN'T IRREFORMABLE BECAUSE TO SAY SO TURNS VATICAN II INTO A gOD!)Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-57470182323019453242016-02-05T06:12:26.171-05:002016-02-05T06:12:26.171-05:00There is a quote from Cardinal Ottaviani in Henry ...There is a quote from Cardinal Ottaviani in Henry Lubac's new book on Vat II. The Cardinal was heard to say, "I want to die before the council is over." When asked why, he replied, "Because I want to die a Catholic." 'Nuf said.Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-52702028243405430532016-02-04T22:06:44.386-05:002016-02-04T22:06:44.386-05:00I am always amused when someone attempts to defend...I am always amused when someone attempts to defend the honor of Vatican II by denouncing attempts to "go back" to anything prior to Vatican II. It amuses me, because one of the great arguments for the merits of Vatican II was "resourcement," that is, the recovery of older, and supposedly, more pristine expressions of the True Faith. So, for example, Henri de Lubac is trotted out: he did marvelous work rediscovering ancient wisdom, was viewed with dark suspicion by the Old Guard (cue Darth Vader music), but -- happily! -- was completely vindicated by Vatican II!<br /><br />So which narrative is it? Resourcement or Aggiornamento?Fr Martin Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01375628123126091747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-57759971991793463892016-02-04T17:33:23.554-05:002016-02-04T17:33:23.554-05:00This is the same progressive liturgist, I believe,...This is the same progressive liturgist, I believe, who once confidently stated that it is not possible to know now what the church will teach on women's ordination or same-sex marriage 100 years from now. Yet his interpretation of Vatican II- that's for the ages. I used to try to challenge him on why he thought that his rupture was the only rupture allowed, but his preferred response was a dismissing quip or to delete my comment. He's a bully, and I guess he just felt like beating up on the "old unreformed pre-vatican ii liturgy" yesterday - no responses allowed as usual. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-76775618118877426392016-02-04T10:59:23.437-05:002016-02-04T10:59:23.437-05:00How exactly can one determine what is "moving...How exactly can one determine what is "moving forward" vs. "moving backward" unless one has a pretty clear idea of the end goal?<br /><br />Does the new liturgy bring more Catholics to Mass? No. <br />Do those who come to Mass grow in their understanding of the Eucharistic presence? No.<br />Do those who attend Mass (50% fewer than before the reforms) obey the Church's teaching and so raise up a godly generation of vibrant, happy, balanced young people? No.<br /><br />So by every quantifiable measure - at least in Western Europe and English speaking cultures, the 'reform' has not be "a move forward" but a great retreat, a retrograde motion, away from faith in Christ, love for Him, and mature acceptance of the point of being Catholic laity (i.e. making disciples of all the nations).<br /><br />Jusadbellumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-78433239222416478722016-02-04T10:42:37.454-05:002016-02-04T10:42:37.454-05:00Where was this post written? I guess you don't...Where was this post written? I guess you don't have to tell me if you don't want to; I'll just google those comments when I get home.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00554830859411216515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-853312704967287322016-02-04T07:05:30.269-05:002016-02-04T07:05:30.269-05:00I think in the EF there are a couple of times when...I think in the EF there are a couple of times when another Gospel is substituted for the Prologue of Saint John, especially if the Prologue is read as the Gospel reading, such as on Christmas morning. <br /><br />While the suggestion has some merits if the Last Gospel was returned, I don't think it has merit in tradition. And I think the snark of the comment that I quote is that Catholic who are into adoration of Christ are not into imitating him, a straw man argument to say the least. Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-80628828402042157622016-02-04T06:50:43.600-05:002016-02-04T06:50:43.600-05:00How about doing what was done before the reforms o...How about doing what was done before the reforms of Pius XII and even Pius X. Bring back the last Gospel from John, but on the days when the mass for Saint of the day isn't celebrated because of a greater feast takes precedence the last gospel would have be the Gospel that would have been read at the saint's Mass. I'm sorry if that isn't clear but I tried.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com