tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post7939119653456278525..comments2024-03-28T20:30:10.681-04:00Comments on southern orders: BEYOND BRUTALITY, CATHOLIC JOURNALIST WHO WROTE ABOUT PRAYING THE ROSARY BEHEADED BY ISIS MILITANTS, BARBARIANSFr. Allan J. McDonaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comBlogger53125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-4352468840275071362014-08-25T11:35:28.004-04:002014-08-25T11:35:28.004-04:00George - The reasons for decline in Church attenda...George - The reasons for decline in Church attendance are described in Robert Bellah's "Habits of the Heart: Individualism and Commitment in American Life."<br /><br />A few passages: "In the mid-nineteenth century small town, it was obvious that the work of each contributed to the good of all, that work is a moral relationship between people, not just a source of material or psychic rewards." (pg 66)<br /><br />"But the ties one forms in the search for meaning through expressive individualism are not those of the moral community of the calling. They are rather the ties of what we might call the lifestyle enclave." (pg 71)<br /><br />"Now if selves are defined by their preferences, but those preferences are arbitrary, then each self constitutes it own moral universe, and there is finally no way to reconcile conflicting claims about what is good in itself." (pg 76)<br /><br />INDIVIDUALISM has become the norm for American/Western people these days. And it is a radical and dangerous individualism that is severing the ties that bind us together.<br /><br />A person who comes from a family of radical individualists, whose family makes major moves every 4 or 6 or 8 years can feel no connection to and, therefore, no responsibility for to a community. If one feels no responsibility to/for a community, one is highly unlikely to experience a call to priesthood or religious life, both of which are based on a desire to serve God and to serve the community.<br /><br />The reasons Bellah will note have nothing to do with the language of the mass, the use/non-use of Gregorian chant, whether or not the priest wears a maniple, or the arrangement of the candles on the altar. Pater Ignotusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-39206622842121270482014-08-24T22:37:41.048-04:002014-08-24T22:37:41.048-04:00Pater Ignotus:
What you describe are times of one...Pater Ignotus:<br /><br />What you describe are times of one extreme. We seem to be headed in another. I don't want to go back to the time when there were no child labor laws or 40 hour work week (and if you worked over 40, there was no overtime pay). While technology and labor saving devices have given us more available time, we have filled it with other activities and many of us don't have enough time in our waking hours to do everything we need or want to do. I myself rarely watch TV anymore. I still spend more time on the computer than I ought to. Just reading emails can take up more time than I would like it to. I devote more time than the average person to prayer and spiritual reading( trying to make up for all the years I did not do much of this). It is a struggle. Even though I don't work as hard as the peasant farmer or coal miner of by gone days, I am still on many a day feel drained when I get off work. So what are your thoughts Pater on why Church attendance and religious vocations have declined so dramatically since the 1950's?<br /><br />Georgenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-50478223021795331352014-08-24T18:01:02.898-04:002014-08-24T18:01:02.898-04:00George - God is not pushed into the background of ...George - God is not pushed into the background of my life. And I suspect the same can be said of your life.<br /><br />I don't know how much God was in the foreground of the life of the peasant farmer of the 1400's or 1800's who spent 12 to 14 hours a day working harder than I can even imagine. I don't know how much God was in the foreground of the lives of coal miners in the 1800's who worked 12 hours a day, 6 days a week.<br /><br />In those days a great material poverty, I don't think God was much in the foreground. <br /><br />If we choose - and it is a choice - to allow materialism and the consumerism it breeds to separate us from God, that is not the result of material wealth or a higher standard of living, but of a choice being made by individuals like thee and me.<br />Pater Ignotusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-5025682319509362882014-08-24T12:44:30.754-04:002014-08-24T12:44:30.754-04:00Pater Ignotus:
It is immaterial. I don't disag...Pater Ignotus:<br />It is immaterial. I don't disagree. I was just bringing up the irony of the situation today where it is not from the J B Stoner types that young people today are learning to use this racist term but from those who are culturally and in appearance his polar opposite. Evil and bad behavior can be compared to the air in a balloon. Press it on one side and it bulges out the other. As far as your response to Fr. McDonald, we are more and more living in an existence( in this country anyway) where we have the greatest in technological advances and medical care but where God is pushed farther and farther into the background ( this seems to be changing somewhat). Far better to live materially poorer than what we have now but where God is given more prominance in our lives. <br /> Georgenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-71263105832149165622014-08-24T08:15:24.229-04:002014-08-24T08:15:24.229-04:00Virtual reality lived on the internet, smart phone...Virtual reality lived on the internet, smart phones and the like and not in face to face everyday living like in the wonderful 1950's.Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-57999163151160141362014-08-24T08:07:55.600-04:002014-08-24T08:07:55.600-04:00Good Father - I have no delusions about "how ...Good Father - I have no delusions about "how good it is today." It is good to be alive today and better than being alive in the 1450's or the 1650's or even the 1850's.<br /><br />But I am very aware of the negative influences in our culture today. Where we differ is in how we might best respond. Your view seems to be that we should attempt to establish a veneer of 1950's Catholicism with chapel veils, Latin masses, quarter-million dollar altar rails, men and women and children in "Sunday Best" clothes. If we can make things look and sound like the 1950's then all will be well.<br /><br />I would suggest you visit the next Renaissance Faire in Atlanta where everyone dresses, talks, sing, and eats as if it were 1575 in Florence. It may look and sound and smell like 1575, but it's not.<br /><br />I have no idea what you mean when you say "... a life lived virtually." Do you mean virtuously? Do you mean virtual reality?<br /><br />George - Where a person learns vulgar or racist language or attitudes is immaterial.<br /><br />Pater Ignotusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-51051686770433630212014-08-24T05:35:45.920-04:002014-08-24T05:35:45.920-04:00Good point George, sometime PI lives in denial abo...Good point George, sometime PI lives in denial about how good it is today and fails to recognize the negative influences on the young that has led them to abandon the Church and denigrate others based upon the slow cooking of the crockpot of life lived virtually. It is worse today than back then.Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-67809204310295891722014-08-23T22:43:16.039-04:002014-08-23T22:43:16.039-04:00Pater Ignotus:
You might very well end up correcti...Pater Ignotus:<br />You might very well end up correcting a young person today as you did the older gentleman (if you haven't already) for using the n-word , who learned this not from a neanderthal upbringing, but from listening to African American rap and hip hop music. Add to that all the other kinds of terms degrading to women which the person will have also added to his repertoire. Things sure are a lot different today than when you or I were coming up.<br />While some things have gotten better, other things have gone the other way. The Devil never sleeps.Georgenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-4152023471278283822014-08-23T17:29:59.737-04:002014-08-23T17:29:59.737-04:00Lily Tomlin is wise. And I am not bothered by the...Lily Tomlin is wise. And I am not bothered by the past. True repentance is not merely saying "I'm sorry," but also changing the way you behave in the future...Pater Ignotusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-11441962108898713052014-08-23T16:10:53.591-04:002014-08-23T16:10:53.591-04:00Let's not be sentimental and foolish. Hopefull...Let's not be sentimental and foolish. Hopefully he was a saint by the time the knife came but we can not call him a martyr because there is no evidence, as yet that he died for the Faith. Dymphnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01469622835449220113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-44696356729013019982014-08-23T14:00:27.135-04:002014-08-23T14:00:27.135-04:00Pater, I understand your question and I agree that...Pater, I understand your question and I agree that this has happened at times in the past. But I would be willing to bet that Fr. MacDonald has had to read and disallow a lot of scurrilous stuff we don't even know about and just wearies of it at times. I do think that he took pains to correct the problem on this particular thread and thus should be encouraged from this point on, not castigated for what has happened in the past. A blog is a lot of work and very discouraging work at times according to a couple of other authors I know (one priest, one lay). Let's just move on from here with good intent, ALL of us agreeing to watch our attitudes and thus our words more carefully, calling each other out respectfully if necessary, and forgiving when needed.<br />As the saying goes: "Forgiveness is giving up hope for a better past."Jdjnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-14378599258529965362014-08-23T11:46:08.873-04:002014-08-23T11:46:08.873-04:00Jdj - We are agreed that this is Good Father McDon...Jdj - We are agreed that this is Good Father McDonald's garden to plant and uproots as he pleases.<br /><br />The question is why he approves for posting comments that clearly violate his STATED POLICY? <br /><br />Plainly he wants these comments on his blog or, after reviewing each comment prior to posting, he would not click them through.<br /><br />Then, in numerous cases, having approved these comments, he turns around and lambastes those posters whose comments violate the policy, even though he approved the comments for posting?<br /><br />Pater Ignotusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-12228263111759101592014-08-23T10:19:26.703-04:002014-08-23T10:19:26.703-04:00Folks, all that being said (and the last few comme...Folks, all that being said (and the last few comments have been an interesting discussion), the bottom line is that this is Fr. MacDonald's blog. He owns this piece of property and gets to decide when and how the land will be cleared and tilled. He plants the seed, waters and fertilizes as needed. He does all of this for the benefit of hungry folks who need the food to sustain them. Carrying this analogy forward (perhaps poor and lacking, but the only one that comes to mind right now), if Fr. sees potential or actual damage to the crop, it is Fr.'s call as to how he deals with the culprit. <br />And may The Lord of the Harvest grant him wisdom.Jdjnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-26409945471631699002014-08-22T16:17:55.500-04:002014-08-22T16:17:55.500-04:00rcg - Racism does not need to be discussed openly....rcg - Racism does not need to be discussed openly. It needs to be met head on with 1) identification and 2) calling it the sin that it is.<br /><br />George - It is entirely possible to say "This is why I disagree with the President.". When one uses racist terms to refer to the President, his wife and children, to refer to an entire race as "feral," to refer to Black women as "jukin and jivin" down the aisle, and to imitate Black lingo then the intent of the person writing such things is abundantly clear.Pater Ignotusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-62640132213078915142014-08-22T14:59:55.962-04:002014-08-22T14:59:55.962-04:00Pater Ignotus:
You did the right thing in correct...Pater Ignotus:<br /><br />You did the right thing in correcting the older gentleman. People do change. It is important to acknowledge that this kind of thing is often a learned behaviour. This person may have been ( and more than likely was) brought up in an environment where this kind of language and attitude were common. Certainly in the South this was true. So while we should correct we should be prudent in how we judge. The South has changed a lot from what it use to be. Tim Scott who is the only African American US Senator recently won his primary with 90% of the vote He did this in a Southern state (South Carolina) where at one time not all that long ago (historically speaking) he would not even have been able to vote. He did this in the Republican primary which is where you find the most conservative of individuals voting. We do need to be careful in how we judge people, lest we be guilty of something ourselves in accusing them. We can challenge an individual and pray for them bur only God can judge. We live in a time where some are labeled racist by others just because they differ with some of the policies of President Obama.Georgenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-36624050703080126552014-08-22T14:22:30.845-04:002014-08-22T14:22:30.845-04:00PI I understand what you mean, but your statement ...PI I understand what you mean, but your statement in its form goes right to WHY I think it needs to be openly discussed. We don't even have a standard definition of what racism is to figure out why it is bad. It is my impression that Gene is not as much a racist as resentful of hypocritical definitions of it. <br /><br />I will leave the other shoe to drop with that. rcghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09131930849106490711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-89798276275360824372014-08-22T07:25:58.680-04:002014-08-22T07:25:58.680-04:00rcg - Racism is not an idea that needs to be teste...rcg - Racism is not an idea that needs to be tested. Neither is making false accusations, bullying, or belittling those who hold different opinions.<br /><br />Standing up against and calling out these evils does not imply weakness in any fashion whatsoever.<br /><br />In fact, it is the weak who resort to such behavior. <br /><br /><br /><br />Pater Ignotusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-79838828149707103502014-08-22T05:59:55.976-04:002014-08-22T05:59:55.976-04:00Rcg:
I appreciate what you are trying to do. I h...Rcg: <br /><br />I appreciate what you are trying to do. I hope you also appreciate the many ways I have tried to reach out to Gene. However, he has adamantly rebuffed every attempt on my part. I have nothing else to offer. <br />Anonymous 2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-81763466234839556042014-08-21T22:37:03.068-04:002014-08-21T22:37:03.068-04:00I think I can answer these posts simultaneously: ...I think I can answer these posts simultaneously: It is not tolerating something to correct it in a civil manner. Certainly there are times it is appropriate to be forceful, but that usually implies weakness in some fashion. This is going to sound strange but I don't think Gene is belittling as much as taunting, and often because he wants to pursue a discussion, argument, to some sort of conclusion. I see that as our opportunity to engage him to discuss the object, I mean that in the Socratic sense, that we are irritated about. This is great place to test ideas and to grow as Catholics.<br /><br />This is what the Church is. We are at odds in any number of ways. Consider that in my profession there could be a sincerely conservative Catholic, perhaps in some jungle in Central America, or even a desert in Iraq, who loves Our Lord and Lady and Mother Church as much as I do. But if on a specific secular objective we differ at the wrong moment we would each be literally out for one another's blood. As I grow in understanding of this, I have pondered it nearly everyday for over 30 years, I must become better at what I do so that in the Name of God I not have to do it. To quote one of my favorite historical figures, "Jaw, Jaw is better than war, war." Encouraging someone, even Gene whom I love like a brother, to say and reveal what he feels (a light task!) then we can discuss the points that may be an obstacle to him, and ME, in Faith. I think we shy from dirty tasks more than we should. I think observing and discuss man as man is a precursor to a good confession, for contrition is a conscious act.rcghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09131930849106490711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-14532525604527581232014-08-21T20:49:42.608-04:002014-08-21T20:49:42.608-04:00The way to root out racism isn't with censorsh...The way to root out racism isn't with censorship. This is where I depart from my liberal brethren who seek to convert up problems instead of actually confronting them. Marchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13510317669833026685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-1021861094179331812014-08-21T20:34:10.129-04:002014-08-21T20:34:10.129-04:00Rcg:
So we are supposed to “wear our Sunday best”...Rcg:<br /><br />So we are supposed to “wear our Sunday best” to honor God when we attend Mass but can “say our everyday worst” when we encounter one another? Speaking one’s mind on the merits of an issue is one thing and should be encouraged because the cure for bad speech, as we know, is more speech. I do understand what you are saying, but should the continuing decline and coarsening of our discourse be encouraged? Moreover, I lose count of the fallacies of reasoning when I read some of the comments. For some people “critical thinking” seems to imply just being critical and launching ad hominem attacks. <br /><br />I will concede that sometimes incivility is necessary, especially in response to personal or institutional incivility. But c’mon, rcg, you cannot tell me that Gene’s constant tactic of seeking to belittle a commenter, instead of engaging the merits of the comment, has any value or advances the discussion. Indeed, its only purpose and effect is to shut down discussion. Let Gene and others who share his tendencies show the courage and the wit to engage the merits.<br /><br />Anonymous 2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-52816442341447275152014-08-21T20:33:09.288-04:002014-08-21T20:33:09.288-04:00rcg - No one, in my presence, expresses racist sen...rcg - No one, in my presence, expresses racist sentiments or uses racist language without an almost instant reprimand from me.<br /><br />I recall that, at 13 years of age, I corrected a much older gentleman who, after we had gathered on the curb to observe the result of a car wreck on our street, said it must have been caused by the "n-----" driving one of the cars.<br /><br />Without missing a beat I told him in no uncertain terms that his language was racist and that he was wrong to speak that way.<br /><br />But this blog isn't a crowd gathered to observe the aftermath of a car wreck. The racist sentiments expressed here are thought out and intentional. And, as I did at 13 and as I would do in my RCIA class or ANY situation, I will call out the evil of racism directly and unflinchingly. Pater Ignotusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-12293523639707455582014-08-21T20:05:28.535-04:002014-08-21T20:05:28.535-04:00PI, I understand, and agree in principle. But tha...PI, I understand, and agree in principle. But that is not how people really are. This is on going catechesis and growth in our Spirit. Exactly what Saint Paul wrote of so often. I will use the stereotype that hurts me the most, personally: In your part of the world you have surely had people come for instruction in the Faith, who want to become Catholic who are racist. Do you turn them away? More importantly, do you deny communion to people who are already Catholics who speak as racists? Do you encourage, demand!, them to not speak that way? If they cannot speak their minds, how would you ever change them? How would you know when to encourage them to face their lack of charity and go to confession? You can only win their hearts by engaging their minds honestly. Sometime you have to get dirty. The pastor should smell like the sheep because to do so, he has to get close enough to touch them, not because they smell nice.rcghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09131930849106490711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-55699005255239964582014-08-21T17:23:03.776-04:002014-08-21T17:23:03.776-04:00Dear Fellow Bloggers:
Please note that, if Father...Dear Fellow Bloggers:<br /><br />Please note that, if Father McDonald fails to prevent posting of the comment in accordance with his stated policy, from now on I will respond to any uncivil and gratuitously insulting ad hominem comment that Gene directs at me by reposting this notice.<br /><br />Thank you,<br /><br />Anonymous 2, August 12, 2014<br />Anonymous 2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-14650877820056759822014-08-21T16:56:28.718-04:002014-08-21T16:56:28.718-04:00Oh, lookie, Anon 2 is back…you know, the one who t...Oh, lookie, Anon 2 is back…you know, the one who thinks there was no difference between the Nazis and the US in WW II because we did "terror bombing" of German cities…the one who is forever apologizing for Muslims…the one who loves Obama and voted for him…I guess he has his NPR hat on backwards again…sort of like spinach for Popeye.Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.com