tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post7154201246725390885..comments2024-03-28T18:02:12.286-04:00Comments on southern orders: SIGNS AND SYMBOLS AND MISSING THE POINTFr. Allan J. McDonaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-82329059819978251742015-03-18T20:56:24.621-04:002015-03-18T20:56:24.621-04:00Still, Anonymous at 8:24 PM, I would say the "...Still, Anonymous at 8:24 PM, I would say the "reception" symbolism is more profound on the tongue.Michaelhttp://quicumquevult.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-50593738136647605632015-03-18T20:24:30.401-04:002015-03-18T20:24:30.401-04:00If the host is placed in your hand by a minister o...If the host is placed in your hand by a minister of communion, you are RECIEVING communion. You are not TAKING it.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-78114416428326874492015-03-18T18:00:23.742-04:002015-03-18T18:00:23.742-04:00Whether one stands or kneels, going forward to rec...Whether one stands or kneels, going forward to receive Holy Communion is in no way a 'procession' in the liturgical sense. One should approach reverently, of course (hands joined, eyes downcast), but it's basically a queue. <br /><br />If there is a rail, fan out to the right and left so that you can occupy a place as soon as someone vacates it. Don't cause a bottleneck by stopping when you reach the head of the centre aisle. A bit like using the Underground where you move along the length of the platform. (Foreign tourists usually block the entrance to the platform, much to the annoyance of the natives.)<br /><br />And approach the rail in your own time. Don't troop up row by row. I read that some US bishops have ordered everyone to remain standing until everyone has communicated. Their lordships should be told in blunt Anglo-Saxon terms to get lost. John Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027156691859606002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-46485119648240239602015-03-18T10:52:26.878-04:002015-03-18T10:52:26.878-04:00I wasn't making an accusation.....only an obse...I wasn't making an accusation.....only an observation.<br /><br />Anonymous 7:29 AM. though we share a fake name, we live in two different worlds. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-30870851495562967112015-03-18T07:29:16.498-04:002015-03-18T07:29:16.498-04:00Why is the tongue so much better than the hand? O...Why is the tongue so much better than the hand? Oh where to begin? First, receiving on the tongue greatly reduces the risk of the Host being abused or profaned or used for sacrilegious reasons. Since the advent of Communion in the Hand, just about every parish reports finding Hosts in various places throughout the church building after Mass. When you receive on the tongue you do not risk fragmenting or spilling particles of the Body of Christ. See the black glove experiment here:<br /><br />http://wdtprs.com/blog/2009/03/hand-in-glove-02-another-communion-in-the-hand-experiment/<br /><br />And finally, well probably not finally, as there are likely more reasons, Communion in the hand is not a Catholic tradition and the only reason we have it is because of the lies of the US Bishop's conference under the dubious leadership of the late Cardinal B, who pushed and pushed and pushed for it, and finally, when he didn't have the votes the Vatican wanted, he changed the rules and allowed bishops not in attendance to vote long distance. Rome only granted its SPECIAL PERMISSION (see "indult") if bishop's conferences insisted that Communion in the hand had been a longstanding tradition in their country. The whole business started in the Netherlands. Well, it had NEVER been a tradition in this country, which makes the whole thing a LIE. For more information, go here:<br /><br />http://www.newliturgicalmovement.org/2014/03/truth-about-communion-in-hand-while.html#.VQlhHEtX3cM<br /><br />The worldwide norm for receiving Communion is on the tongue. It is a sign of us RECEIVING Christ, not "taking" Communion. It is a sign of our submission and humility to Christ. <br /><br />I can't speak to your accusation of people curling their tongues, but I have never heard a priest complain and I have certainly never licked a priest or EMHC's hand.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-90616418704920720872015-03-17T21:55:05.250-04:002015-03-17T21:55:05.250-04:00Why is the tongue so much better than the hand? I...Why is the tongue so much better than the hand? I'd rather somebody touch me with their hand than lick me. I was an altar boy for many years and probably carried a communion paten for numerous miles in my time. I can still remember how lots of people, just as the priest was about to put the Host on their tongue, would curl their tongue up and "lick" the priest's finger.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-2536678081086897932015-03-17T21:07:12.888-04:002015-03-17T21:07:12.888-04:00Well, she DID stand up for herself at Mass today, ...Well, she DID stand up for herself at Mass today, she went to Communion, opened her mouth and was given the Host on the tongue.<br /><br />I wanted to see what would happen before raising the issue with the school. I live in a parish where it's very easy to be relegated to the "fringe", and the more I interfere, the more that is likely to happen to all of my family. I am willing to move forward to deal with it, but cautiously. Gratefully, they gave me no reason to today.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-86013255800144276662015-03-17T16:56:50.926-04:002015-03-17T16:56:50.926-04:00Anonymous at 9:37:
I disagree to a degree. This I...Anonymous at 9:37:<br />I disagree to a degree. This IS the child's battle. And she is learning to stand up for her faith against those who are in authority but misusing it. Yes, the parent should go and do the discussing, but the child should be shown she CAN stand up for herself and what is right. No helicoptering parents in the Church!<br /><br />When my mom was a girl about 12, her mom had a disagrement with the priest and began going to the Polish National Catholic Church, which was not in communion with Rome. My mom, a girl, decided that was not for her, and went to confession for missing Mass at the Roman Catholic Church. The priest refused to give her absolution (! maybe he recognized her voice as my grandma's daughter) so what did my mom do? She went to another priest in another confessional, received absolution, and took herself and her sister to Mass at the parish each week. <br /><br />Faith is faith, even in kids. We need to encourage them to stand up for the faith, on their own, not take over the challenge for them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-6046842422193254562015-03-17T09:44:14.131-04:002015-03-17T09:44:14.131-04:00The pastor should be informed and with the expecta...The pastor should be informed and with the expectation that he will inform those who are EMHC at the school to respect the two options for receiving Holy Communion. Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-32053970085155684112015-03-17T09:37:06.631-04:002015-03-17T09:37:06.631-04:00This is a seven year old girl we're talking ab...This is a seven year old girl we're talking about! That's quite a weight to put on her shoulders. The momma bear in me would want the name and number of the principal, all extraordinary ministers, and pastor. Don't make this her battle - she should only be focused on receiving Our Lord with love. Go crack some skulls for her - or pull her from that stupid school and teach her yourself. It is unacceptable for them to drag children into this poppycock!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-15647884023028338102015-03-17T08:43:56.778-04:002015-03-17T08:43:56.778-04:00I am the first anonymous with the daughter in the ...I am the first anonymous with the daughter in the Savannah Diocesan school. Here is my update:<br /><br />This morning my daughter told me that there would be another school Mass this week. I told her that when she went for Communion to open her mouth, extend her tongue and wait. <br /><br />Well, she revealed more to me about what has happened. She said the first time she tried to receive like that, the EMHC told her to cup her hands together, but she didn't. I told her that if they tried that again, so quietly say to the person, "I receive on the tongue." It will be interesting to see just how tolerant of diversity they are. Frankly, I'm disgusted by the whole thing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-33750196523978222542015-03-16T21:57:49.317-04:002015-03-16T21:57:49.317-04:00I had an experience with a DRE back in the 1980...I had an experience with a DRE back in the 1980's when I was teaching CCD. I taught the 6th graders, and the text we used did a sort of review and deepening theology of the sacraments for this age group. So we get to the chapter on the Eucharist, and Sister DRE (of the progressive ilk) was in my classroom, "observing." Not thinking much about it, I began to tell the kids about how we used to receive communion; how the railing near the altar is a communion rail, and we used to kneel along the railing and receive communion on the tongue and.... Well, Sister DRE nearly went apoplectic. She turned bright red in the face, interrupted my class to tell us the BISHOPS have MANDATED receiving in the HAND, STANDING for our diocese. <br />I had no idea what she was doing at the time. I was pretty innocently telling the kids about the olden days, and had no intention of giving any other instruction besides receiving reverently in the hand, standing. At that time, I didn't even KNOW we had the option of receiving on the tongue.<br />When I think back on it I have to laugh. Sometimes I think the Holy Spirit likes to give them a pitchfork right in the rear end.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-84669284302276094182015-03-16T20:46:44.737-04:002015-03-16T20:46:44.737-04:00As some may know, in the Eastern Churches, one rec...As some may know, in the Eastern Churches, one receives standing (of course never in the hand) and yes, standing is a symbol of the resurrection, and kneeling is a penitential posture (primarily). The metania (bow touching one's hand to the floor is the Eastern equivalent of the genuflection (prostration saved for Lent and Penitential seasons)<br /><br />So I call much of the changes to the Roman Liturgy Byzaninizations, attempting (and epically failing) to match posture and theology of the East..<br /><br />Sometimes people need to learn things the hard way before realizing that the Church had it right all along. I do pray that the west get back to kneeling and reception on the tongue. <br /><br />Православный физикhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11313371333531421128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-47940432555949794822015-03-16T17:52:26.140-04:002015-03-16T17:52:26.140-04:00I think Bee is basically correct. I had the same e...I think Bee is basically correct. I had the same experiences and still do when I go to NO parishes. It seems to stem from a lack of respect as well as boredom and lack of faith. <br /><br />As far as what is older, that is eyewash and I think only an argument to the traditionalists. Blood sacrifice and burned flesh ante dates the bread host so why not go back to that while standing, loins girded? Because we have learned better. rcghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09131930849106490711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-55347653155606748222015-03-16T17:35:47.019-04:002015-03-16T17:35:47.019-04:00I think in most places since the 1970's, recep...I think in most places since the 1970's, reception in the hand has been treated—quite against the intentions of the Church when the practice was permitted—like THE way to receive Communion.<br /><br />When my mom became Catholic in the 80's, the only way she was taught to do it was...You guessed it! In the hand! <br /><br />A friend of mine said he was only taught reception in the hand when he made his First Communion. <br /><br />At a former parish of ours, a couple years ago, when one of the instructors was telling kids on the day of their First Communion how to go about receiving, she said: "And you're gonna go right up to Father and stretch out your hands, with your left hand over your right..." No mention of Communion on the tongue, even though that is the normative manner of receiving Holy Communion even today.Michaelhttp://quicumquevult.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-69660743669619941142015-03-16T16:55:48.199-04:002015-03-16T16:55:48.199-04:00Fr. McD asked: Why was the method of distributing ...Fr. McD asked: Why was the method of distributing Holy Communion changed from...kneeling at an altar railing ...to standing at communion stations?<br /><br />A few years ago I changed parishes. I loved the parish but had to leave when a new mid-life aged priest was assigned there. This priest seems to think the Mass needs to be a kind of familiar, friendly time, a family gathering of sorts, and he's the MC. He has a wonderful singing voice, a lot like Robert Goulet. Given that he's wearing a mike, and loves to sing, and his demeanor of friendliness, the Mass began to seem a little like a dinner theater. So, I stopped going there. <br />But yesterday I went there due to some scheduling problems. There was a guest homilist, a priest who did a fine job with a Lenten homily. However, from the beginning Fr. Friendly Goulet did this:<br />-greeted everyone with a sort of howdy before the first sign of the cross;<br />-before the Alleluia, interrupted to "introduce" Fr. Visitor, telling us a little about him, and what a fine priest he is;<br />-just before the canon began, interrupts again, telling us Fr. Visitor has to leave to get back home (catch a plane?), so bye bye and thank you Fr. Visitor and then he begins the applause (which people joined in) and Fr. Visitor leaves the altar;<br />-at the end, just before the final blessing, after the announcements done by the Lector, (in which we get a full explanation of St. Patrick's Day and St. Joseph's Day celebrations, including that these feasts allow us to break the Lenten fast), Fr. Friendly Goulet makes sure we know how much he loves pazki (jelly filled donuts) and looks forward to having many of them this Thursday (laughter from the audience);<br />- he bestows the final blessing and then says something akin to see ya' everybody and have a good weekend and leaves the altar.<br /><br />THIS is why communion became standing only. Because priests (and bishops) lost the faith, and abuse the Mass (oh, excuse me, the LITURGY!), because in their own heart the Mass doesn’t meet their needs, and they assume it doesn’t meet the needs of the people either, and every change is a hope that the change will bring some relief from the stifling boredom and deadness they experience saying Mass. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-79227255311493099752015-03-16T16:07:01.886-04:002015-03-16T16:07:01.886-04:00Father MacDonald offers very good advice, Anonymou...Father MacDonald offers very good advice, Anonymous. Rood Screenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09816036539243214384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-42091897653190241152015-03-16T15:58:29.436-04:002015-03-16T15:58:29.436-04:00Father, maybe you can answer this one:
Why are ...Father, maybe you can answer this one: <br /><br />Why are DRE's and pastors permitting children to be instructed to receive in the hand ONLY when the NORM is on the tongue and we only receive in the hand because of an indult? <br /><br />Is that how it works for First Communicants at St. Joseph's?Cletus Ordonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-79039444200428578092015-03-16T10:22:40.911-04:002015-03-16T10:22:40.911-04:00I had this same issue at our Catholic school (also...I had this same issue at our Catholic school (also this diocese). The teacher insisted she make her First Holy Communion on the hand. The DRE had to be involved, then the pastor. Eventually it was "allowed" but with great annoyance that they did not pretend to hide from her and made her very uncomfortable. Whenever the class practiced, she was forced to practice in the hand so as to not "confuse" her classmates. <br /><br />Speak to the teacher with great kindness, as undoubtedly they don't know any better. Be persistent but polite. Finally, consider homeschooling. If they truly don't know better, why are they the ones teaching your children?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-46154451626619604292015-03-16T08:35:11.146-04:002015-03-16T08:35:11.146-04:00Who mandated that she receive in the hand? I would...Who mandated that she receive in the hand? I would speak first with the principal who should then instruct teachers who are extraordinary ministers to respect the choice of communicants to receive on the tongue. If a priest did this you should speak to them personally. If you don't get the proper response speak to the pastor and if unsuccessful there go to the bishop and if unsucessful there to ROME!Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-63949058777583999512015-03-16T08:27:08.752-04:002015-03-16T08:27:08.752-04:00Since the method of distributing and receiving Com...Since the method of distributing and receiving Communion is the topic, let me ask you a question: I have a daughter enrolled in one of this diocese's Catholic schools. She has already received her First Holy Communion, before she enrolled (she is 7) and no one else in her class has. She told me on Friday that she was not allowed to receive Communion at school Masses, because she had to sit with her class at Communion time. I wrote a note to her teacher, asking her to let my daughter go to Communion and told her that the office had a record of her First Communion. When I picked her up later that day, I asked if she was permitted to go to Communion. Her reply? "Yes, but I didn't go, because they told me I HAD to receive it in the hand." I taught my children to only receive on the tongue. Now I don't want to go stirring up trouble with the school, but this sounds just plain wrong. Do you have any suggestions about to handle this? I am afraid that no matter how I approach this, they are going to try to twist this around to make me the bad guy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com