tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post7037398572981950796..comments2024-03-28T20:30:10.681-04:00Comments on southern orders: IF THE BISHOP CLOSED YOUR HISTORIC CATHOLIC CHURCH, WHAT WOULD YOU DO? WHAT WOULD JESUS DO?Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-87447233934848982302010-08-25T08:26:58.898-04:002010-08-25T08:26:58.898-04:00Precisely Anon @ 7:44
That is what my heart and s...Precisely Anon @ 7:44<br /><br />That is what my heart and soul crave, and more to the point, what I believe would "out perform" any NO Parish in a side by side competition.<br /><br />I hate to belittle the subject matter by addressing it that way, but I know of no other way to express it. Side by side, unfettered by Diocesan interference, I believe a Traditional Parish would perform the mission of the Church better than any non-Traditional Parish. Every where one opens it proves that point.Templarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18204866760862707908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-37195427754442471532010-08-24T22:10:27.102-04:002010-08-24T22:10:27.102-04:00If you want to see the website of Catholic Church ...If you want to see the website of Catholic Church awash in Orthodoxy, check out this website for St. John Cantius Church in Chicago.<br />http://www.cantius.org/<br />Tridentine Mass EVERY DAY at 6:00am!<br />Sodality of St. Monica.<br />Imagine, a parish with an actual Sodality.<br />I am drooling!<br />Suddenly, moving to the windy city and dealing with the cold doesn't seem like such a bad idea after all.<br /><br />http://www.cantius.org/<br /><br />anon at 7:44Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-55761152011301932652010-08-24T13:22:13.380-04:002010-08-24T13:22:13.380-04:00I would very unhappy if our parish were to close, ...I would very unhappy if our parish were to close, but I would not follow a priest into schism. The One we all need to follow is in the Eucharist, so I would go to another parish. No matter how beautiful the churches here or how lovable the priests, the Heavenly Church and our One True High Priest awaiting us in Eternity are where our focus needs to be fixed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-8036228969614801962010-08-24T11:41:55.015-04:002010-08-24T11:41:55.015-04:00Ah,yes, "social justice" issues...this i...Ah,yes, "social justice" issues...this is a code word for Left Wing political, anti-Catholic, anti-American activism. The Church has been misled into this nonsense by old hippie priests and a noisy, but largely non-contributing, rabble. Christian theology, after its primary concern for right belief and the salvation of souls, is fundamentally oriented toward service to our fellow man. All that is needed is proper preaching and catechising. There should be no need for tacking on socio-political philosophy (of any persuasion), fadistic social causes, feel good humanism, or tacky emotionalism. This is how Christians and Catholics lose their way. Perhaps the parishioners of such Churches as are mentioned can tell no difference between the political rallies they attend and Mass. No wonder they lose interest (and, it must be asked, is it better for the poor to be fat, happy, and apostate or hungry and saved?). <br />Theologically, the Church should be apolitical. There are, indeed, times in which the theological and political seem to overlap, but these should be few and seriously scrutinized. Because of this social justice nonsense, the Church finds herself in the position of encouraging the violation of this country's laws; the Catechism says thast is a no-no. So, let us appeal from the Holy Church lesser informed to the Holy Church better informed...and insist that the Catholic Churches and schools ban the words "social justice" from their teaching. Otherwise, we are just raising another generation of loud, obnoxious, poorly catechised, heretical rabble.Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-22353726756670276892010-08-24T09:56:25.211-04:002010-08-24T09:56:25.211-04:00The pastor has a great responsibility here, and un...The pastor has a great responsibility here, and unfortunately he seems to have led the congregation astray. He should have encouraged his parishioners to join with other parishes close by and most importantly pray for the Bishop who had to make this incredibly difficult decision. Christ is present in every Church, in every tabernacle. It would have been a great opportunity for him to teach a sense of detachment and obedience.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-34776642715793439142010-08-24T07:33:35.377-04:002010-08-24T07:33:35.377-04:00This is going to sound off point, but as I live in...This is going to sound off point, but as I live in Ohio and am familiar with the regions and the various dioceses, there is a contributing factor I think should be considered. Many, if not most, of the parishes in Ohio are not wealthy. They are populated by working class people, mostly union members and hourly wage workers. They are very active in social programs and justice issues. For many years now the dioceses support tax referendum illegal immigrant protection, food programs and various issues that aide the poor. We are now afloat in poor that are chronically unemployed yet are organised and funded enough to support massive voter turnouts for tax referenda, we sing half our hymns in Spanish although there are few, if any Spanish speakers attending Mass, and the poor seem more in need of Jenny Craig than St Vincent de Paul. <br /><br />Attending mass reminds me more and more of visiting a relative in hospice. Spiritless recitations of prayers, depressing homilies cataloguing recent injustices (often graphically), ending in appeals to give more and seek justice. We have committees to work on justice in the Holyland (just around the corner, I guess), ensure fair trade products are consumed (and boycott Wal-Mart and Kroger for unfair labour practices), and support the growing Hispanic community that is conspicuously absent from the pews.<br /><br />The confusing aspect of this is the parishioners blithely ignore almost all these efforts creating a scene where there are two conversations totally unrelated to each other, the Church in one monologue, the people in another.<br /><br />The good news is that there is anybody that attends mass at all. It is obvious that they sleep through the homily, but they yearn for the ageless prayers, and although silent due 'Pan De Vita' are alive with the Creed. Tehy yearn for the simple, clear expression of Good News inherited through the ages. If they could get that without the extra baggage they would fill the churches to overflowing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-76070876640432394092010-08-23T16:43:06.976-04:002010-08-23T16:43:06.976-04:00I work in fundraising and have worked with variuos...I work in fundraising and have worked with variuos diocese. Bishops are faced with difficult tasks in keeping parishes open. Not mentioning any diocese or parish names I have seen the financial situation of many churches. Unfortunately, parishioners are not supporting the church enough. Many times it is a situation of generous parishioners are getting older and dying off. Younger parishioners are not coming in or not stepping up their support to make up the difference. It costs a good amount of money to keep a church running and properly maintained. Many pastors are hard pressed to ask their parishioners to give more knowing their financial difficulties. Dioceses depend on parishes for their means of financing their diocesan programs and most diocese are straddled with subsidizing needy parishes. Parishes ask the diocese for money, the diocese asks the parishes for more money. The parish needs more money from the parishioners. It is a vicious cycle. The truth is, neighborhoods change, there is less clergy and too many church buildings to keep open. The parish model may not work any more. Perhaps there should be one central rectory for priests to live in community with a main church. Then there could be missions where the group of priests can share responsibility. I don't know. Merging and closing of churches is the only recourse in many situations. People get upset when churches get closed, but their outrage is too late and they don't offer the means to keep these churches open.Carl Jonsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05634377716575314834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-39046271767366623642010-08-23T12:16:23.326-04:002010-08-23T12:16:23.326-04:00That's a pretty tough question for me. In one...That's a pretty tough question for me. In one way I have already faced it. The Parish I am "assigned to" is a heterodox mess, so I sought out and found a more Orthodox Parish (St Joseph) 20 miles away. Although it is beautiful to be sure, it is it's Orthodoxy and Reverence for the Sacred that keeps me there. So, if the Bishop closed it what would I do?<br /><br />My first preference would be to look for another which is also Orthodox.<br /><br />As for the SSPX, I do not believe them to be in schism. Yes, Archbishop Lefebre committed a Schismatic Act by ordaining 4 Bishops without approval (since lifted I might add) but the Society itself is not Schismatic. In fact I would go so far as to say they are more Orthodox, Parish for Parish, then most Diocesan Parishes. But they lack jurisdiction so they are not an option for me. Were they ever regularized, like the FSSP are, I would not hesitate to enroll in such a Parish. In fact, would love to see the FSSP be given a Parish in this Diocese to put to the test the real potential of a Traditional Rite Parish compared to a New Rite Parish. You see, because while we are right to point of the problems with the SSPX, we are remiss in not pointing out the obvious; it may have been a cult of personality that created the SSPX, but it is not what sustains it. On a per-capita basis, the SSPX ordains clergy at a higher rate than Dioceses, and has better attendance than Diocesan Parishes; etc etc etc. In all ways they exceed the "output" of Diocesan Parishes. While acknowledging they are not regularized, we should at least ask why the Holy Spirit chooses to work in that way?<br /><br />As for the situation in Ohio, from reading the article I gather the Bishop closed their Parish because they were a bunch of heterodox rebels. Good riddance to them. Now give that Parish Church to the FSSP and see how long the "Community of St. Peter" lasts.Templarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18204866760862707908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-89690439892102450272010-08-23T11:07:27.135-04:002010-08-23T11:07:27.135-04:00If my parish closed and was merged with another I&...If my parish closed and was merged with another I'd find another parish.Dymphnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01469622835449220113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-5150204244990750692010-08-22T13:13:16.703-04:002010-08-22T13:13:16.703-04:00The good news is that most of these parishes are v...The good news is that most of these parishes are very close to each other and finding a place to attend Mass and community to belong is pretty easy.<br /><br />The bad news is that the parishes are dying, the schools are emptying, and the parishioners are only getting older, no young ones are staying.<br /><br />rcgAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-74628539148936146882010-08-22T12:14:43.059-04:002010-08-22T12:14:43.059-04:00I have seen that the Catholic Church exists first ...I have seen that the Catholic Church exists first and foremost in the hearts of the faithful. Everything that extends out from there is beautiful architecture (Ps. 50:2), good witness (Jas. 1:17), and truthful testimony (Jas. 1:18) heralding the good news of salvation.<br /> <br />Yet, our architecture here, raised so artfully upon the land of liberty, is tossed into the hands of tourists and revelers to keepsake its beauty. This speaks to the condition of the church in the hearts of the faithful. How dynamic, graceful, and elegant those hearts would have had to have been to extend church and produce the “jewels” in these photographs. How is the church formed in our hearts today? Where is that same sacred formation of heart that produced “jewels”? Really, it is deformed...it is unformed. We have for the worst part chosen to lose much sacredness.<br /><br />As Catholics we know that no human can lead us to salvation; but, humans instrumented by the Father and the Son through the Holy Spirit can and do. Cults of personality are underpinned by idolatry of self and blasphemy toward the Paraclete. Arrogance that averts lives is fed by our loss of conversion to the Paraclete who waits in our heart to lead us in every action we take. But we don’t choose our heart and the grace that’s seeded there.<br /> <br />The very corporality of our heart, our adults & youth, choose to fill their heart with media content. Inarguable empirical evidence from 2010 reveals that 18 year olds submit to 7 ½ hours of media every day 7 days a week. Let’s add workplace time, classroom time, activities of daily living time, sleep time, and we have no time for the Paraclete. Science says, “The TV shows they watch, video games they play, songs they listen to, books they read and websites they visit are an enormous part of their lives, offering a constant stream of messages about families, peers, relationships, gender roles, sex, violence, food, values, clothes, and an abundance of other topics too long to list” (Kaiser Family Foundation 2010).<br /> <br />With no time we seek out others to do for us. With no time we seek the easiest most facilitative way to makeshift everything in our lives from constructing love, practicing childcare, and nurturing our health, to worshiping our God. We have no time for our heart. Worst of all when things go to hell we turn to the brave women and men who receive the gift to heed Gods call and with the same facilitative sloth we demand they fix it. We have no time to stop the hellions.<br /> <br />So, the church plants become like fleeting beauty (Prv. 30:31), and victimized, deformed, and damaged persons become pied pipers of darkness leading us down the garden path to...??? <br /><br />As for me, its not "What would you Do?" <br /><br />I do rail against the degradation of our hearts extension. I write, I speak out, I work to form hearts, I give of my time, my talent, and my treasure. However, alone with the grace of God I am weak and tossed on the water. I need to stand with others who commit in kind. 10% of the 20% of the whole is evidently not working well. God wants more. U’awll would choose to say enough, how much, or no?-Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01586480579220554662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-35379808492625757062010-08-22T11:59:24.478-04:002010-08-22T11:59:24.478-04:00I would certainly remain a faithful Catholic, but ...I would certainly remain a faithful Catholic, but I would have to camp out in the Confessional because of my anger and epic use of profanity...Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-46722932828081057552010-08-22T10:11:21.037-04:002010-08-22T10:11:21.037-04:00While it is difficult for me to imagine the pain c...While it is difficult for me to imagine the pain caused by the closing of a parish, I am confident that I would remain faithful to Christ's Church, and seek out a new parish.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com