tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post6610091495823853252..comments2024-03-19T09:57:14.321-04:00Comments on southern orders: HOW DO YOU SPELL "O-M-I-N-O-U-S" AS IN THE CHURCH?Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-85983287866790531092017-01-24T17:52:08.281-05:002017-01-24T17:52:08.281-05:00Mark Thomas,
I was referring to the unofficial l...Mark Thomas, <br /><br />I was referring to the unofficial lay and clerical recognition and resistance to the original material heresy of the iconoclasts, of which the Church's Lives of the Saints are replete. The formal condemnation of iconoclasm was, of course, limited to the official leaders of the Church, culminating in the Second Council of Nicaea in A.D. 787. Please review the difference between material and formal heresy since you seem unaware of this basic difference. Adam Michaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-53435084680041989372017-01-20T02:29:11.595-05:002017-01-20T02:29:11.595-05:00Adam Michael said..."Tell the martyrs of the ...Adam Michael said..."Tell the martyrs of the iconoclast heresy that they had to presume the orthodoxy of Emperor Leo III, when he forbade icons in 726 and there was a riot in the city."<br /><br />Who summoned synods to examine Emperor Leo III's orthodox status? Who excommunicated the iconoclasts? Who deemed them heretical?<br /><br />Did Popes Gregory II and Gregory III have said authority or was that left to laymen?<br /><br />Thank you.<br /><br />Pax.<br /><br />Mark ThomasMark Thomasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-77577657982630605672017-01-17T15:37:17.078-05:002017-01-17T15:37:17.078-05:00"I am compelled by Holy Mother Church to pres..."I am compelled by Holy Mother Church to presume that a person is orthodox until or unless the competent Church authority says otherwise. I am required by the Church to honor a person's name and reputation."<br /><br />And, more personally, the very Church you claim to defend admonishes you to examine your conscience for sins against the Faith and not to presume your own orthodoxy if you are in error. Explain to us how the laity can be expected to "turn on" this ability to recognize and oppose error in themselves, but "turn off" this ability when it comes to the same errors in others around them. Adam Michaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-9567419361355636882017-01-17T15:33:38.730-05:002017-01-17T15:33:38.730-05:00"I am compelled by Holy Mother Church to pres..."I am compelled by Holy Mother Church to presume that a person is orthodox until or unless the competent Church authority says otherwise. I am required by the Church to honor a person's name and reputation."<br /><br />You are wrong. Such a misconception has never been reflected in the history of the Church. Tell the martyrs of the iconoclast heresy that they had to presume the orthodoxy of Emperor Leo III, when he forbade icons in 726 and there was a riot in the city. Or consider the stellar witness of Christian orthodoxy, St. Stephen the Younger (among many martyrs), who was martyred after a life of confessing the orthodoxy of the veneration of the holy and sacred icons. He lived before the definite condemnation of iconoclasm at the 2nd Council of Nicaea in 787, and yet he confessed the truth and opposed heretics. This is far from your weakness in stating that the faithful of Malta can not condemn the public errors of their bishops or your defense of a long list of theological deplorables. If you confess the Faith of your ancestors, act as they acted. Adam Michaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-26856615061770092512017-01-17T15:20:47.535-05:002017-01-17T15:20:47.535-05:00"In his world, two people can hold opposing v..."In his world, two people can hold opposing viewpoints on an issue and yet both be considered orthodox."<br /><br />Exactly, in Mark Thomas' world, there would have been no confessors of the Faith during the beginning of the Monothelite crisis when Pope Honorius I did not condemn the heresy of the heretical Patriarch of Constantinople, Sergius I. Until Rome's condemnation of the heretic, Sergius I, all would have been bound to confess the orthodoxy of the heretical Patriarch, thus extinguishing the light of Faith in the Patriarchate of Constantinople. This is hardly attested in the historical record. By projecting his confusion and weakness onto Church history, Mark Thomas' misconceptions are more easily revealed. Adam Michaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-53952009502722585412017-01-17T15:13:28.900-05:002017-01-17T15:13:28.900-05:00“I am 100 percent in agreement with Church teachin...“I am 100 percent in agreement with Church teaching on abortion, artificial birth control, and marriage. I pray daily for the end to abortion. I pray daily for aborted souls.”<br /><br />What would you do if you became misled, denied these teachings, and then sought to return to the truths of the Faith on these points? In the cases of Catholics that I personally know, they once denied and opposed teachings of the Catholic Faith. They easily admit that they compromised their Catholic Faith and espoused error. However, Rome never condemned them and they remained (outwardly) in juridical good standing with the Church. However, their well-formed conscience and knowledge of the truths of the Church told them otherwise and, with the help of God’s grace, they repented of their heresy and returned to life as living members of the Church. When I read your words regarding the faithful’s inability to recognize error in the words and actions of others who retain good relations with Rome, I immediately contrast this with the lives of my friends. I know that the faithful can recognize heresy and error and may repent of it, because guided by the Church’s teachings regarding the obligation of the faithful to examine their consciences and repent of their sins against the Faith, these exemplary Catholics did so. And if they did so, ordinary members of the Church must be able to know the difference between orthodoxy and heresy, or else they would have been unable to make this act of repentance. And if those who have fallen into personal heresy know this difference, they (and, by extention, all laity who may also sin against Faith) can certainly use this knowledge of the truths of the Faith to defend the Church, when others also uncondemned by Rome (like them) stray into the same heresies. Adam Michaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-27849904704789244052017-01-17T15:05:43.555-05:002017-01-17T15:05:43.555-05:00I must admit that I am surprised to see Mark Thoma...I must admit that I am surprised to see Mark Thomas addressed so directly by a high ranking churchman - a Cardinal, no less! Adam Michaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-29274428600486810652017-01-17T09:58:00.067-05:002017-01-17T09:58:00.067-05:00Mark prefers his own opinions to what the Church t...Mark prefers his own opinions to what the Church teaches, even when those opinions cause him to deny logic.<br /><br />In his world, two people can hold opposing viewpoints on an issue and yet both be considered orthodox.<br /><br />He obviously does not understand the definition of the word "orthodox."<br /><br />The reason he does not understand it, is because he equates the word "orthodox" with "being in (apparent) communion with the pope."<br /><br />He does not understand that those two things are not necessarily equivalents.<br /><br />DJRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18028761850444888285noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-68615719267421092252017-01-17T06:14:34.658-05:002017-01-17T06:14:34.658-05:00I am sure that Cardinal Cafarra must read this blo...I am sure that Cardinal Cafarra must read this blog. When he said “only a blind man could deny there’s great confusion, uncertainty and insecurity in the Church” he was surely pointing to the blind man on this blog, none other than our own Mark Thomas. <br /><br />JanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-22730512541180193702017-01-17T01:25:49.731-05:002017-01-17T01:25:49.731-05:00Mark Thomas said... "DJR, does the Catholic C...<i>Mark Thomas said... "DJR, does the Catholic Church permit unorthodox priests to remain in communion with Her, to offer Holy Mass, and administer the Sacraments?</i><br /><br />Has the Catholic Church allowed practicing sodomitical priests to remain in communion with Her, to offer Holy Mass, and administer the Sacraments?<br /><br />When Archbishop Weakland of Milwaukee had a boyfriend, was he in communion with the Church, offering Holy Mass, and administering the sacraments?<br /><br />Let's see. He was the ordinary of Milwaukee how long? From 1977 to 2002?<br /><br />Oh, but he was orthodox. Of course.<br /><br />From Wikipedia:<br /><br />"According to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, a deposition released in 2009 revealed that Weakland shredded reports about sexual abuse by priests. <br /><br /><b>Weakland admitted allowing priests guilty of child sex abuse to continue as priests without warning parishioners or alerting the police.</b><br /><br />Weakland stated in his autobiography that in the early years of the sexual abuse scandal he did not understand that child sexual abuse was a crime.<br /><br />DJRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18028761850444888285noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-45869031025837580762017-01-16T22:08:58.600-05:002017-01-16T22:08:58.600-05:00Mark Thomas,
Your idol, Pope Francis, is a master...Mark Thomas,<br /><br />Your idol, Pope Francis, is a master of detraction and calumny who constantly offends against the virtues of justice and charity. He is not worthy to kiss the feet of the Cardinals who offered the Dubia. <br /><br />Bellum,<br /><br />TJMTJMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-45987158219361965172017-01-16T20:48:56.447-05:002017-01-16T20:48:56.447-05:00Then what I stated prior is correct. You believe ...Then what I stated prior is correct. You believe voting in favor of abortion is consistent with Catholic orthodoxy.<br /><br />Not only that, you believe truth and error are the same thing.<br /><br />Pope St. John Paul affirmed papal infallibility, and you believe his position was orthodox. <br /><br />Yet Hans Kung <i>denies </i> papal infallibility, and you believe his position is also orthodox.<br /><br />JPII = YES to papal infallibility = orthodox (i.e., true belief).<br />Kung = NO to papal infallibility = orthodox (i.e., true belief).<br /><br />According to you, both positions are orthodox, even though they are diametrically opposed.<br /><br />You realize, do you not, that that is not epistemologically possible?DJRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18028761850444888285noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-8377315346256434522017-01-16T19:39:20.441-05:002017-01-16T19:39:20.441-05:00Mark Thomas said... "I am not authorized by t...Mark Thomas said... "I am not authorized by the Church to declare that a priest or layman is not a member of the Church."<br /><br />DJR said..."But the converse is also true. You are not authorized to declare whether someone is orthodox. Yet that's exactly what you have done."<br /><br />I am compelled by Holy Mother Church to presume that a person is orthodox until or unless the competent Church authority says otherwise. I am required by the Church to honor a person's name and reputation.<br /><br />Catechism of the Catholic Church:<br /><br />2478: To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor's thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way:"<br /><br />2479: "Detraction and calumny destroy the reputation and honor of one's neighbor. Honor is the social witness given to human dignity, and everyone enjoys a natural right to the honor of his name and reputation and to respect. Thus, detraction and calumny offend against the virtues of justice and charity."<br /><br />Pax.<br /><br />Mark ThomasMark Thomasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-29793096278435120402017-01-16T19:29:16.577-05:002017-01-16T19:29:16.577-05:00DJR said..."I'm just reiterating what you...DJR said..."I'm just reiterating what you believe. You believe that a person who votes in favor of murdering millions of babies, for 10 years no less, can be an orthodox Catholic priest. If that is true, then voting for abortion is consistent with Catholic orthodoxy. That's what you believe."<br /><br />Define me as you will for the consumption of other folks. Not a problem.<br /><br />Anyway, here is what I believe.<br /><br />For 10 years, Father Drinan declared that he was opposed to abortion as he voted pro-abortion.<br /><br />During that time, as incredible as his stance in question appeared to me, the Catholic Church recognized him as an orthodox priest. He was never condemned by Rome and/or his bishop. He was recognized as a priest in good standing with the Church.<br /><br />Therefore, I didn't (don't) have the right to have accused him of schism/heresy. I was (am) compelled to recognize that Father Drinan was in communion with the Church.<br /><br />Please alert me if the Church had excommunicated Father Drinan. Please alert me should the Church announce that Cardinal Kasper, and Fathers Curran and Kung are separated from the Church.<br /><br />By the way, millions of Catholics voted for pro-abortion Donald Trump and pro-abortion Hillary Clinton. (I did not vote for either candidate as each supported, among other things, abortion.)<br /><br />Please alert me as to whether any bishop excommunicated any Catholic for having declared publicly their support for (or worked publicly to have elected) Mr. Trump or Mrs. Clinton.<br /><br />Thank you.<br /><br />Pax.<br /><br />Mark ThomasMark Thomasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-70577472215556648392017-01-16T19:02:11.817-05:002017-01-16T19:02:11.817-05:00Anonymous 2 said..."Mark Thomas:
You should ...Anonymous 2 said..."Mark Thomas:<br /><br />You should not expect the many Francis bashers on this blog to be fair and balanced in their characterizations of what you say any more than they are fair and balanced when they make statements such as “the Maltese bishops, who are in communion with the pope[,] . . . have now published, in the pope's own newspaper, a document denying the teaching of the Church.” This is the writer’s own_opinion_of what the Maltese bishops have done. It_may_be a correct opinion, or it may not. One can only reach a judgment about whether the Maltese Bishops’ document denies or contradicts the teaching of the Church—and if it does, the extent to which it does—after carefully examining what the Maltese Bishops actually said. Here is a reasonably fair and balanced report regarding what they actually said:"<br /><br />Hello. Yes...I much prefer to read the words of the bishops or Malta, rather than throw in with rush-to-judgment claims that the bishops of Malta are heretics. From there, I will see as to how things proceed in Rome in regard to the teachings offered by Malta's bishops.<br /><br />Pax.<br /><br />Mark Thomas<br /><br />Mark Thomasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-88250989611697536822017-01-16T16:21:02.250-05:002017-01-16T16:21:02.250-05:00Mark Thomas said... "I am not authorized by t...<i>Mark Thomas said... "I am not authorized by the Church to declare that a priest or layman is not a member of the Church."</i><br /><br />But the converse is also true. You are not authorized to declare whether someone is orthodox.<br /><br />Yet that's exactly what you have done.DJRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18028761850444888285noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-80137584484601985962017-01-16T16:19:24.591-05:002017-01-16T16:19:24.591-05:00Mark Thomas said... "Therefore, what is your ...<i>Mark Thomas said... "Therefore, what is your point when you say to me that "according to you, voting for abortion is orthodox?"</i><br /><br />I'm just reiterating what you believe. <br /><br />You believe that a person who votes in favor of murdering millions of babies, for 10 years no less, can be an orthodox Catholic priest.<br /><br />If that is true, then voting for abortion is consistent with Catholic orthodoxy. That's what you believe.DJRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18028761850444888285noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-44254570066573804162017-01-16T14:24:56.015-05:002017-01-16T14:24:56.015-05:00DJR said..."Why did you say that you are bein...DJR said..."Why did you say that you are being put on the spot? Answer: Because your views are wrong, and you know it, but you don't want to admit it."<br /><br />You are wrong. I don't have any error to admit in regard to this discussion.<br /><br />As to your having placed me on the spot...my point about that is you attempt to pin such things on me as..."So, according to you, voting for abortion is orthodox."<br /><br />You need to ask the Ordinaries who are in communion with the Church and oversee Fathers Curran and Kung as to why they (the Ordinaries) recognize the priests in question as orthodox members of the Church.<br /><br />The Ordinaries, not I, have made it clear that they have recognized Fathers Curran and Kung as orthodox priests/members of the Church. In turn, Rome has never overruled the bishops in question.<br /><br />Father Drinan's bishop, despite Father Drinan's pro-abortion voting record, recognized Father Drinan as an orthodox member of the Church. In turn, Rome never overruled Father Drinan's bishop in that regard.<br /><br />To return, for example, to Father Curran, here is a Wanderer article about him.<br /><br />http://thewandererpress.com/catholic/news/featured-today/lest-we-forget-solidarity-in-dissent-fr-curran-and-his-allies/<br /><br />"For Bishop Clark, throughout his pastorship of the diocese, Fr. Curran was “a priest in good standing,” even after he was declared in 1986 unfit to teach Catholic theology by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith."<br /><br />Many high-profile Catholic politicians throughout the world say that they are opposed personally to abortion, but vote to fund abortions. They favor homosexual unions. However, they remain in good standing with their parishes and bishops. Said politicians are permitted to receive Holy Communion.<br /><br />I am not authorized by the Church to declare that a priest or layman is not a member of the Church.<br /><br />Therefore, what is your point when you say to me that "according to you, voting for abortion is orthodox?"<br /><br />Pax.<br /><br />Mark Thomas<br /><br />Mark Thomasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-10136367658225741662017-01-16T13:42:02.574-05:002017-01-16T13:42:02.574-05:00Correction to last post: Father Robert Drinan, SJ...Correction to last post: Father Robert Drinan, SJ. James was his father.DJRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18028761850444888285noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-47066560277880416352017-01-16T13:30:32.726-05:002017-01-16T13:30:32.726-05:00DJR said..."Mark, do you not remember this po...DJR said..."Mark, do you not remember this post you made?<br /><br />"Is Cardinal Kasper a "priest/bishop/cardinal in good standing" with the Church? If he is, then he is orthodox. Pax. Mark Thomas."<br /><br />I recall that statement. Now, please inform me should the Church determine that he is unorthodox. As of today, as far as I know, Cardinal Kasper is in good standing with the Church. Therefore, I don't have any right to pronounce him unorthodox.<br /><br />Cardinal Kasper is in communion with Pope Francis. Where Peter is, there is the Church. Therefore, Cardinal Kasper is in communion with the Church, according to Church teaching.<br /><br />If you believe that Cardinal Kasper is unorthodox, then please explain as to how that is possible as he is in good standing with the Church.<br /><br />==========================================================================<br /><br />DJR said..."Now plug Father Drinan's name into your statement. Mark Thomas: Was pro-abortion Father James Drinan, SJ, who voted for abortion in the U.S. Congress for 10 years, "a priest/bishop/cardinal in good standing" with the Church? If he was, then he was orthodox. Thus, in your view, voting pro-abortion is orthodox."<br /><br />As I recall, Father Drinan was a priest in good standing with the Church. The Catholic Church, despite Father Drinan's pro-abortion voting record, never suspend him a divinis. The Catholic Church never excommunicated Father Drinan. The Catholic Church recognized him as a priest in communion with the Church.<br /><br />You acknowledged the same about Father Drinan.<br /><br />Nevertheless, I checked numerous sources via the internet to be certain that my recollection about Father Drinan is correct. One source after another confirmed that which I said, and for that matter, what you said about Father Drinan.<br /><br />The Church recognized that Father Drinan was in communion with Her.<br /><br />Example: From New Oxford Review.<br /><br />The Passing of 'Fr. Death' <br /><br />by Anne Hendershott <br /><br />Anne Hendershott is Professor of Sociology at the University of San Diego and author of the recently published Politics of Abortion (Encounter Books, 2006).)<br /><br />"Fr. Robert Drinan, S.J., died at the end of the same month he presided over the inaugural Mass for the new U.S. Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi. <br /><br />"As an elected member of the House of Representatives, Fr. Drinan provided a much-imitated model for Catholic politicians who wished to support the pro-abortion movement while claiming to be faithful to Catholic moral teaching.<br /><br />"All the while, Fr. Drinan remained on the faculty of the Georgetown University Law Center, from 1981 until his death this past January.<br /><br />"What perplexes orthodox Catholics most is that Fr. Drinan remained a priest with "full faculties," enabling him to administer the Sacraments and to preside over the Mass at Trinity University in Washington, D.C., for pro-choice politician Nancy Pelosi, a Trinity alumna -- despite the fact that for more than 2,000 years the Catholic Church has affirmed the moral evil of abortion."<br /><br />DJR, does the Catholic Church permit unorthodox priests to remain in communion with Her, to offer Holy Mass, and administer the Sacraments?<br /><br />If She doesn't, then why did She permit that of Father Drinan?<br /><br />Why did the Church recognize Father Drinan as a priest in good standing with Her despite his pro-abortion voting record?<br /><br />Father Drinan's pro-abortion voting record was known to Church authorities. Nevertheless, Church authorities recognized Father Drinan as a priest in good standing with the Church.<br /><br />That means that Father Drinan was recognized as an orthodox priest. Correct.<br /><br />Pax.<br /><br />Mark ThomasMark Thomasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-2189680104109142312017-01-16T10:09:06.909-05:002017-01-16T10:09:06.909-05:00Mark, do you not remember this post you made?
&qu...Mark, do you not remember this post you made?<br /><br /><b>"Is Cardinal Kasper a "priest/bishop/cardinal in good standing" with the Church? If he is, then he is orthodox. Pax. Mark Thomas.</b><br /><br /><br />Now plug Father Drinan's name into your statement.<br /><br />Mark Thomas: Was pro-abortion Father James Drinan, SJ, who voted for abortion in the U.S. Congress for 10 years, "a priest/bishop/cardinal in good standing" with the Church? If he was, then he was orthodox. <br /><br />Thus, in your view, <b>voting pro-abortion is orthodox.</b><br /><br /><br /><br />You can't have it both ways. <br /><br />If being "in communion with the pope," "in good standing," et cetera, equals orthodoxy, then pro-abortion politician Father Drinan was orthodox.<br /><br />If those things do not guarantee orthodoxy, then your initial assertion is erroneous.<br /><br />And if your assertion is erroneous (and it is) that means Cardinal Kasper, et al., could be heretics even though they are allegedly "in communion with the pope," "in good standing," et cetera.DJRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18028761850444888285noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-86161325873624201332017-01-16T09:48:30.577-05:002017-01-16T09:48:30.577-05:00Mark:
The point that I have been trying to get yo...Mark:<br /><br />The point that I have been trying to get you to understand is that a person's supposed "communion with the pope" does not guarantee that person's orthodoxy, which you have asserted several times.<br /><br />It does not.<br /><br />Father Drinan is a perfect example.<br /><br />Why did you say that you are being put on the spot? Answer: Because your views are wrong, and you know it, but you don't want to admit it.<br /><br />Father Drinan was 100% pro-abortion. He was <i>never </i> defrocked, suspended, excommunicated (publicly anyway), or anything of the sort.<br /><br />He remained "in good standing" and "in communion with the pope" until the day of his death.<br /><br />If that constitutes "orthodoxy" in your view, then voting for abortion constitutes "orthodoxy."<br /><br />Father Drinan, SJ, a pro-abortion politician, was an orthodox Catholic, according to you. <br /><br />That's your position.<br />DJRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18028761850444888285noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-58388905690468094522017-01-16T08:13:09.655-05:002017-01-16T08:13:09.655-05:00Marl Thomas said: "God could very well utiliz...Marl Thomas said: "God could very well utilize a bad Pope..."<br /><br />Well, Mark ol' buddy, He is using a bad Pope...as a judgement upon the Church, Vatican II, our self-indulgent culture, and our unbelief, which is rampant in the Church and everywhere else. We have exactly the Pope we deserve.Genenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-67601741594756383612017-01-16T04:27:41.786-05:002017-01-16T04:27:41.786-05:00Communion with the Pope is hardly a guarantee for ...Communion with the Pope is hardly a guarantee for orthodoxy.....it'd be nice if that were the case though. <br /><br />This pope has one job, and he's hardly doing it. Some people have this very strange idea that the Pope's power is limitless and absolute. This is insanity. He does not have the power to change the Gospel of Christ, and any actions that undermine the Gospel of Christ need to be ended. The sooner this pontificate ends the better. <br /><br />Of course, this could all be stopped with a little use of the crosier ;)Православный физикhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11313371333531421128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-34593059235910827142017-01-16T03:22:11.362-05:002017-01-16T03:22:11.362-05:00I said..."In 1997 A.D., then-Cardinal Ratzing...I said..."In 1997 A.D., then-Cardinal Ratzinger offered his opinion upon the issue in question."<br /><br />DJR said..."Is his opinion correct?"<br /><br />I don't accept his opinion. No.<br /><br />From Father James Martin's (S.J.) article "Does the Holy Spirit Choose the Pope?"<br /><br />"In 1997, when asked on Bavarian television whether or not the Spirit chooses the pope, the then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger answered:<br /><br />“I would not say so, in the sense that the Holy Spirit picks out the Pope…I would say that the Spirit does not exactly take control of the affair, but rather like a good educator, as it were, leaves us much space, much freedom, without entirely abandoning us. <br /><br />"Thus the Spirit’s role should be understood in a much more elastic sense, not that he dictates the candidate for whom one must vote. Probably the only assurance he offers is that the thing cannot be totally ruined.”<br /><br />“There are too many contrary instances of popes the Holy Spirit obviously would not have picked!”<br />============================================================================<br /><br />I don't understand then-Cardinal Ratzinger's confidence in regard to his belief that “There are too many contrary instances of popes the Holy Spirit obviously would not have picked!”<br /><br />I detect a lack of the supernatural element in Cardinal Ratzinger's opinion. That is, his opinion failed to recognize the mysterious ways in which God may operate. <br /><br />Compare Cardinal Ratzinger's statement to Romans 11:33 (Douay): "O the depth of the riches of the wisdom and of the knowledge of God! How incomprehensible are his judgments, and how unsearchable his ways!"<br /><br />When we consider Saint Peter's "bad Pope" moments, there were likely more than a few folks 2,000 years ago who, in line with Cardinal Ratzinger's opinion, did not believe that the Holy Ghost had anything to do with Saint Peter's elevation to the Papacy.<br /><br />In his Encyclical Ut Unum sint, Pope Saint said:<br /><br />"It is important to note how the weakness of Peter and of Paul clearly shows that the Church is founded upon the infinite power of grace. Peter, immediately after receiving his mission, is rebuked with unusual severity by Christ, who tells him: "You are a hindrance to me"."<br /><br />In line with Cardinal Ratzinger's opinion, we must wonder why Jesus Christ selected such a man as His first Pope.<br /><br />Pope Saint John Paul II continued: <br /><br />"How can we fail to see that the mercy which Peter needs is related to the ministry of that mercy which he is the first to experience? And yet, Peter will deny Jesus three times.<br /><br />The fact is that despite the many moments during which he was a "bad Pope," even to the horrific point of having three times denied Jesus Christ, we know that Jesus selected Saint Peter to have served as Pope.<br /><br />Perhaps the key to understanding as to why God could use a "bad" Pope to our edification is found in Pope Saint John Paul II's statement above:<br /><br />"It is important to note how the weakness of Peter and of Paul clearly shows that the Church is founded upon the infinite power of grace."<br /><br />God could very well utilize a "bad" Pope, who, of course, would have every opportunity to become a holy Pope via God's grace, to make clear to us that "the Church is founded upon the infinite power of grace."<br /><br />We also recall Romans 11:33 in regard to God's mysterious ways: "How incomprehensible are his judgments, and how unsearchable his ways!"<br /><br />Again, in Cardinal Ratzinger's opinion in question, I find the lack of the supernatural, mysterious ways in which God can work.<br /><br />Good Friday liturgical prayer: "For the Pope: Let us pray. Almighty and eternal God, You guide all things by your word, You govern all Christian people.<br /><br />"In your love protect the Pope you have chosen for us."<br /><br />Pax.<br /><br />Mark ThomasMark Thomasnoreply@blogger.com