tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post6376897752597018155..comments2024-03-28T18:02:12.286-04:00Comments on southern orders: THE IDEOLOGUES AND CAREERISTS AT THE NATIONAL CHISMATIC REPORTER AND THEIR MINIONS, POWERS AND PRINCIPALITIES NOW SHOW THEIR DIVISIVE COLORS AGAIN AND RAIL AGAINST POPE FRANCIS--DIFFERENT POPES SAME MENTALITY!Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comBlogger66125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-51779373724787729842013-05-12T19:41:49.760-04:002013-05-12T19:41:49.760-04:00Marc - "Losing its soul" is not a dogmat...Marc - "Losing its soul" is not a dogmatic statement, in any way shape, or form.<br /><br />No one, not Abp Gomez or any other bishop, has ever said that the USCCB proposed reform of our immigration laws is a dogmatic issue. You are creating an argument where none exists.<br /><br />The USCCB has a right and a duty to lobby politicians for reform of our nation's immigration policies (or financial policies, or drug testing policies, or military policies) because these policies directly impact the health and wellbeing of humans. These impacts are moral issues, and the bishops are teachers of morality.<br /><br />Reasonable Catholics can surely disagree with a proposal by the USCCB, but they have to do so using the Church's teaching that underpins the proposals.Pater Ignotusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-3583037065368286142013-05-12T14:54:22.024-04:002013-05-12T14:54:22.024-04:00I hasten to add:
I am not knowledgeable enough ab...I hasten to add:<br /><br />I am not knowledgeable enough about the topic of immigration reform to discuss it with any merit. Honestly, it's not an issue that interests me. In my line of work, I have encountered and represented immigrants. I sympathize with their plight, and I think our Christian duty calls us to allow no person to go be forced leave their homeland in search of basic necessities like food and safety. I'm just not sure how that duty works itself out in a geo-political way, so I can't really discuss the issue with any precision.<br /><br />I do know that we could all come up with proposals and none of them would be dogmatic, though. So, this issue, unlike those involving intrinsic evil and the rights of the Church and her people, are not so clear that the USCCB should be lobbying politicians for some particular result. And yet, that appears to be a part of the USCCB's platform and activities.<br /><br />Finally, it's not that I dislike the USCCB, I just think it is a worthless institution. I think it allows American bishops to push their own responsibilities to their flock off on others. Personally, I'd like to hear and obey <i>my</i> archbishop, but it seems like Cardinal Dolan is the only one we ever hear from. <br /><br />In fact, my parish, during the General Intercessions prays for our archbishop and for Cardinal Dolan. Of course, Cardinal Dolan certainly needs and deserves our prayers. I just think the idea of the bishops' conference is antagonistic to the idea of subsidiarity and can poorly shape individual bishops and lead to their shirking their responsibilities to their own flocks.Marcnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-50932645308359319162013-05-12T14:39:01.329-04:002013-05-12T14:39:01.329-04:00Father, as is clear from what I wrote, I didn'...Father, as is clear from what I wrote, I didn't claim the USCCB was teaching contrary to the Church's teaching on faith and morals. If I was going to say the USCCB was acting in a contrary way to Catholic teaching, I would have said so. <br /><br />The USCCB does a bad job, in my opinion, on a lot of things - like their handling (or lack thereof) of the abortion issue, so-called gay marriage, and the fight for Catholic religious freedom. Perhaps their doctrine is correct, but you can't tell it very clearly from their pastoral approach. <br /><br />As for immigration -- Consider Abp. Gomez of Los Angeles recently claiming America is "losing its soul" over the issue of immigration. This is not a dogmatic issue and yet this archbishop is making it one. Reasonable Catholics can disagree on this issue. Surely one cannot lose one's soul over a debatable topic. <br /><br />For me, I believe countries have a right to secure their borders. But, I don't know how to effectively handle the immigration issue in the US. But, Catholic teaching doesn't give an answer to this issue directly even though Abp. Gomez seems to think it does... That's my whole point. I don't necessarily disagree that the US should care for immigrants, but Catholics aren't compelled to support immigration reform by our dogma.Marcnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-57796789323278893582013-05-12T13:40:38.500-04:002013-05-12T13:40:38.500-04:00We also had a Bishop recently say, "We do not...We also had a Bishop recently say, "We do not need to be talking to students about saving their souls, we need to talk to them about saving the planet." Yeah, right, how 'bout them Bishops...LOL!Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-23707669030480505392013-05-12T12:12:56.649-04:002013-05-12T12:12:56.649-04:00Marc - I find nothing from the USCCB to be contrar...Marc - I find nothing from the USCCB to be contrary to faith and morals. Do you? If so, the burden is yours to show, without any shred of doubt from any Catholic, that this is the case.<br /><br />No bishop has ever tried to "sell" the USCCB's immigrtation policy as dogma. That is simply not the case. If you can show otherwise, do so.<br />Pater Ignotusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-19480128239923491732013-05-12T11:36:52.815-04:002013-05-12T11:36:52.815-04:00Richard: Please define what you mean by "Cath...Richard: Please define what you mean by "Catholic minutia." If by that you mean the doctrinal truths of the Catholic Faith, and if you don't think those truths to be important to one's salvation, then how is it you identify yourself as Catholic, i.e. what is it that makes someone a Catholic if not profession of the divinely-revealed truths of the Catholic Faith?<br /><br />You see, for the orthodox people here, no matter how civil or uncivil they may be, it makes a difference to one's salvation what one believes. Christ certainly seemed to think so, and the Church has always taught so. If it really is minutia to you, then perhaps you don't grasp the orthodox belief that you are playing with fire with your approach to ideas and beliefs. That's why they're treating you so seriously.<br /><br />As to being "positive" about things: I take that to mean certain or sure about some things. Is that what you meant? Again, you make that sound like a bad thing. "To have doubted one's own first principles is the mark of a civilized man," as Holmes said, has much merit. But one may profess the doctrines of the faith while acknowledging that some of those doctrines reflect truths that are incomprehensible to the human mind. It is indeed part of the Catholic faith to "let the mystery be," but that isn't _all_ of the Catholic faith. Again, if you reject those doctrines as being nothing more than minutia, how do you reconcile that with identifying yourself as Catholic? Are you afraid to ask yourself that question for fear of where it may lead you?<br /><br />And, by the way, you skirt the same fallacious argument from authority that you seem to condemn in us when you play the role of wise old man--I'm 80, I've lived a long time, listen to my wisdom, grasshopper. So why is it ok in your case and not in ours to argue from authority?<br /><br />Hammer of Fascistshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08647227447212096501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-21870209517724094982013-05-12T11:01:30.630-04:002013-05-12T11:01:30.630-04:00Of course, Fr. Kavanaugh, you know that the bishop...Of course, Fr. Kavanaugh, you know that the bishops aren't "the Magisterium" unless they are in union with the Pope in matters of faith and morals and in continuity with the Tradition. Then, it is the particular bishops who are in union and not the national conferences.<br /><br />The USCCB is not a part of the Magisterium. Most of their actions are done through lay groups without much involvement from the bishops. <br /><br />So, it is very likely that the USCCB will come out with things that warrant satirizing or should be outright rejected by the people. At the least, many of their actions in recent years warrant discussion and involve things about which Catholics are free to disagree (I'm thinking particularly about their stance on immigration issues, which they continue to attempt to sell as Catholic dogma when it isn't).<br /><br />I think one crosses the line when making improper comments about one's bishop. But, the USCCB is a political arm. To suggest we should not criticize it when it needs criticizing is simply wrong.<br /><br />And, if one day the USCCB happens to do something good, hopefully we can all cheer them for that. I hope that day comes when they decide that the second "C" part of their name is more important than the "US" part.<br /><br />As for the secondary discussion here, none of us who have commented here for an extended period of time are beyond reproach for some of the things we've said. We've had heated discussions and have all lost our tempers at one point or another. I think the use of cross-talk and thinly veiled insults is just as disappointing as what Fr. Kavanaugh is calling NewSpeak. <br /><br />Did we step into a world where it is more "loving" to rashly accuse others for their perceived lack of "love"? Have we (myself included) forgotten that detraction is a sin? The fact that it takes place on the internet doesn't excuse it. I hope both our priest and lay commenters (again, myself included) can remember this even when the debates are heated...Marcnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-12150718008409773932013-05-12T08:21:35.467-04:002013-05-12T08:21:35.467-04:00Gene - More NewSpeak! You can attack the "m...Gene - More NewSpeak! You can attack the "magisters" without attacking the magisterium. Planning isn't planning! The list grows and grows....<br /><br />Dick - Some people, alas, won't be happy until they make everyone else as miserable and unhappy as they are. Blessings! Regards to Ann and the crowd.Pater Ignotusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-68569390573449126412013-05-12T06:47:54.246-04:002013-05-12T06:47:54.246-04:00BTW, Ignotus, satirizing Bishops is not attacking ...BTW, Ignotus, satirizing Bishops is not attacking the Magisterium. Bishops are not infallible and do not speak ex cathedra...thanks be to God.Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-46229552732556265372013-05-12T06:20:28.390-04:002013-05-12T06:20:28.390-04:00Well, Dick, at 80 years old, just how much time do...Well, Dick, at 80 years old, just how much time do you have on your hands? Maybe you ought to re-consider some of those Catholic minutia you mentioned...like repentance, Confession, and Last Things...just a thought.Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-42281747721717423602013-05-12T04:58:45.748-04:002013-05-12T04:58:45.748-04:00As one who hears confessions and knows the human h...As one who hears confessions and knows the human heart somewhat well, nothing embarrasses me! :)Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-56493042581659793742013-05-11T21:57:57.251-04:002013-05-11T21:57:57.251-04:00Here's the deal, y'all...to the various ch...Here's the deal, y'all...to the various charges that have been leveled against me, I throw myself on the mercy of the court. I may be an ultra liberal, an intransigent, I may confuse love with false charity...all the stuff y'all said (and may yet say). I'm not as positive about things religious as many of you seem to be. <br /><br />I'M 80, I'm retired, I have time on my hands. I enjoy my computer..having a discussion, a debate.. an argument even. It keeps my juices flowing. Sometimes it's about politics...I poke at my conservative, tea party friends. This time I was poking at you. Y'all are much more intense (tense too)about Catholic minutia than I am. There's another folk song that I love that says "I believe in love and I live my life accordingly. But I choose to let the mystery be". I think I may have made some of you angry. I apologize.<br />You probably won't miss me when I'm gone. And I am gone. May go poke a Republican.<br /><br />Peace will come..let it begin with you.<br /><br />P.S. Fr. McDonald, aren't you sometimes just a little bit embarrassed about this whole deal? Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16828435367622858652noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-89261494717572172722013-05-11T20:50:07.131-04:002013-05-11T20:50:07.131-04:00Richard, I do not comment here as much as others, ...Richard, I do not comment here as much as others, but I do follow the comment section closely. Although I may not agree with some of their comments toward others, I do understand the anger and frustration they feel. <br /><br />Pater Ignotus, In regards to Fr. McDonald's policy about comment approval: I'm fairly certain he approves most comments, the exceptions being blasphemous, sacrilegious, and otherwise harmful comments. I'm sure he personally objects to some of the things said in these comments; but, censoring comments because he personally disagrees with them isn't his way of dealing with it. Of course, I shouldn't presume to speak for him, and I may be wrong. <br /><br />And Richard, you also say <i>"I asked you and your blog buddies to identify yourselves...to me, and to the world. I didn't get a name from you or from anybody (except Fr. McDonald)."</i> Technically, they don't <b>have</b> to tell you who they are, because it is ultimately irrelevant to the discussion. <br /><br />And, I think I need not point out the irony in your use of <i>ultra "sophisticated" fellow-bloggers</i> as a subtle insult, all the while deploring the use of insults.<br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00554830859411216515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-81149538907917007932013-05-11T20:07:36.830-04:002013-05-11T20:07:36.830-04:00So, he's "Dick" now? How apropos...d...So, he's "Dick" now? How apropos...does he call you "Mick?" Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-60494233090995112672013-05-11T20:05:25.173-04:002013-05-11T20:05:25.173-04:00Ignotus, That wasn't mockery and scorn...you m...Ignotus, That wasn't mockery and scorn...you mean that isn't what it stands for? Dang! Who'd a thunk...Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-19972849376215862172013-05-11T19:23:29.294-04:002013-05-11T19:23:29.294-04:00Dick - Don't worry that Gene thinks you "...Dick - Don't worry that Gene thinks you "attack the magisterium." He thinks the same of me. Under his former screen name, this is what Gene has to say about the magisterial teachers, aka, the bishops' of our Church: <br /><br />"pinnanv525 said... <br />Ality, You mean the USCCB... United States Communist Cabal of Bishops...LOL! God help us...I cringe every time I hear they are meeting."<br /><br />Mockery and scorn are his M. O.<br /><br /> <br />Pater Ignotusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-54906477859014873622013-05-11T15:10:42.318-04:002013-05-11T15:10:42.318-04:00Correction:
*to be addressed by those with Holy ...Correction: <br /><br />*to be addressed by those with Holy Orders*<br /><br />This is why the rest respond "cum spiritu tuo" (with your spirit).Ludovicusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-85372785260790873712013-05-11T14:50:19.628-04:002013-05-11T14:50:19.628-04:00Richard,
I borrowed that "Deliverance" ...Richard,<br /><br />I borrowed that "Deliverance" line from attorney and humorist Bob Steed. I have often used it over the years in the way of the South laughing at itself. It was apropos to the moment because of its use of the term "love" and how that word is both misunderstood and misused in today's society. Whether or not you're gay, or pro-gay, NOBODY could mistake the violence that took place in that scene for any kind of love (except homicidal and utterly selfish eros). If you read anything Catholic or homophobic in it, it was in your reading, not in my intent. Yet you leapt to judgment, and your response was to sneer at me for being "classy." It seems like your hands are awash in the same nastiness that you have deplored finding on others' here. <br /><br />Next: I'm not sure what you're suggesting by your statements that I remain anonymous. Do you mean to claim that I am a coward, sir? If so, please state it plainly so that I may not misunderstand you on such a crucial point. The fact is that I use many handles on many different blogs, FB accounts, and such, and for many different reasons, all of which are based in privacy concerns. None of these concerns affects, or should affect, the validity of the arguments I put forward here; they stand or fall regardless of my identity or anonymity. I'm not dodging, as you are: I'll clearly state that I refuse to reveal my identity to you. I've been persecuted in the past (and I don't use that term lightly) by a modernist Catholic priest for my orthodoxy. In fact he kicked me while I was was down in that I was suffering some major life stresses when he sanctioned me for my orthodoxy. I still feel the effects of that persecution to this day. I'm not going to open myself up to that again.<br /><br />I stress, yet again, that I have consistently maintained a respectful tone toward you, but you have now resorted to calling me names and, as I read it, insinuating cowardice on my part. If I'm wrong about that, then please correct me. If you want to have a rational and discussion with me, as I have repeatedly requested of you, I respectfully await your answer to my question about how you would deal with the modernist and disobedient statements of the NCR. If you continue to refuse to answer it (as you have now done for the third time), I will simply write you off as yet another trolling modernist according to my recently-enunciated Gene's Law.Hammer of Fascistshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08647227447212096501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-50717124677939685212013-05-11T14:44:19.953-04:002013-05-11T14:44:19.953-04:00"vobiscum" (with your spirit) is to be u..."vobiscum" (with your spirit) is to be used only within the context of a liturgical celebration, otherwise the correct greeting is "vobis" (with you), as in "pax vobis" (peace be with you). The "with your spirit" is reserved in particular for addressing those of Holy Orders, specifically the celebrant/priest because he, through his ordination, has taken on the Spirit of Christ.Ludovicusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-82785801895355878272013-05-11T14:19:30.335-04:002013-05-11T14:19:30.335-04:00Re: names. Botherton, if you had the initiative to...Re: names. Botherton, if you had the initiative to check the membership section, my name and info are all right there.<br />Now, about this classy Catholicism you like to sarcastically toss about...which do you suppose is a greater offense to the Church some angry devout Catholics who speak a bit harshly to those that mock the Magisterium...or self-righteous faux Catholics who pick and choose what they want to believe and remain in the Church, living a lie, while trying to de-construct her from within? Which do you reckon is a greater offense to Christ? Who do you reckon will have the most to answer for before the Righteous Judge? Hmmmmm...Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-15983752070950366062013-05-11T14:00:22.635-04:002013-05-11T14:00:22.635-04:00Pater, Thank you for your comment. As you may kno...Pater, Thank you for your comment. As you may know, I too am a bit of a strange one... who occasionally enjoys poking a pointy stick at self-righteousness and pomposity. See...I'm making "progress"...already learning, from my brief experience here, how be rude and insulting. Maybe some day I'll fit in and be accepted.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16828435367622858652noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-17069589031924778262013-05-11T14:00:00.841-04:002013-05-11T14:00:00.841-04:00Ah...now we see that Botherton has yanked Ignotus&...Ah...now we see that Botherton has yanked Ignotus' chain and they are both howling. Isn't this great? LOL1 Throw a rock and the hit dog hollers...Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-51152795948300424742013-05-11T13:07:19.576-04:002013-05-11T13:07:19.576-04:00I guess you missed my comment then, Richard...I guess you missed my comment then, Richard...Marcnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-70892090284806395372013-05-11T13:03:15.763-04:002013-05-11T13:03:15.763-04:00To be fair, though, Fr. Kavanaugh, from time to ti...To be fair, though, Fr. Kavanaugh, from time to time we actually have some pretty good discussions on here...Marcnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-33182237272664880172013-05-11T12:51:06.876-04:002013-05-11T12:51:06.876-04:00Anon 5...re. dodging questions: I asked you and y...Anon 5...re. dodging questions: I asked you and your blog buddies to identify yourselves...to me, and to the world. I didn't get a name from you or from anybody (except Fr. McDonald).<br /><br />I'm genuinely interested in what you have to say about it.<br /><br />And BTW, that little exchange between you and Gene about rape and a feral "minority" and "Deliverance" was real classy Catholicism.<br /><br />Dominus vobiscum, Pax vobiscum.<br />(I was an altar boy when all of the Masses were in Latin) Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16828435367622858652noreply@blogger.com