tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post6068432745391319388..comments2024-03-28T11:36:20.629-04:00Comments on southern orders: CARDINAL BURKE ON DEFYING GOD, NOT GOOD FOR US ON EARTH OR IN THE AFTER LIFEFr. Allan J. McDonaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-45750496429807000462015-06-03T18:26:19.677-04:002015-06-03T18:26:19.677-04:00Jolly Jansenist:
At least Roosevelt and his admin...Jolly Jansenist:<br /><br />At least Roosevelt and his administration did something to improve people lives. Something needs to be done today because too many of our young people are living useless lives without much hope, while subsisting on what the government provides them without it requiring anything in return. <br /><br />Anonymous2<br /><br />OK. Alright. I know that Catholics and any persons of good will should certainly be concerned about the last two on the list. "Oppression of the poor, defrauding labourers of their wages” are bad, very bad indeed, but the first two on the list are more of the problem in our country. That's not to say we shouldn't be concerned about these things, whether they are happening here or in other parts of the world.Georgenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-10114385408880727912015-06-03T11:32:33.471-04:002015-06-03T11:32:33.471-04:00Indeed, Janesenist. Were I seeking to create a nig...Indeed, Janesenist. Were I seeking to create a nigh omnipotent government, I'd create an all-encompassing and crushing welfare system which would essentially silence any dissent, lest the hand that feeds the people disappear. Any aspect, whether healthcare, food, housing, etc. would become the 'reward' for not dissenting from the official government line. (Granted, I'd do it from the aspect of an absolutist Tsar who, legally, would own all property in his domains, not some USSR wannabe system).<br /><br />I cannot speak for urban areas, but in rural areas, there's an almost hereditary nature to the 'poor' mindset. For example, my grandfather, a farmer, was content to have a roof over his head (even if leaky), *some* food (even if a small amount, although it was never an issue since they grew and hunted for their food), and his faimly around him. My dad's the same way. I, on the hand, am reguarly mocked for wanting more from life than just that. My dad's response is 'What more is there to want?'. Unless you're doing back-breaking labour, you're a 'pencil pusher' not worth their time--which, given the near non-existence of America's manufacturing industry, means you're not going to find anything remotely well-paying that's considered worthy of their recognition.<br /><br />Anywhere else in the US and this wouldn't matter, but the rural South has an almost Confucian obsession with maintaining familial norms, so those who venture outside the set boundaries will, likely, have a hard time adjusting to being shunned by their families, whilst also struggling to succeed in whatever form of path they've chosen for themselves. Do I think it's worth it? Hell yes, but to many others from similar situations, losing the respect of their families is simply too hard. Sure, their families will continue to love them, but there will always be an air of disrespect towards them.<br /><br />Can it be fixed? I don't know. We are talking about towns that still prohibit Sunday alcohol sales, after all.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00554830859411216515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-13273692605138200012015-06-03T01:55:45.370-04:002015-06-03T01:55:45.370-04:00JJ:
I am cautious about your explanation of the a...JJ:<br /><br />I am cautious about your explanation of the ailment’s causes but I like your proposed treatment plan.<br /><br />Anonymous 2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-10701109615091517482015-06-03T01:54:22.026-04:002015-06-03T01:54:22.026-04:00George:
“There is no equivalence between abortio...George:<br /><br /><br />“There is no equivalence between abortion, which is always the taking of life of an innocent child, and these other injustices you brought up. Are you saying there is?”<br /><br />I am not saying anything, just responding to Anonymous Jan’s post of May 31 at 4:24 a.m. quoting approvingly from a 1943 manual on theology widely used in seminaries. Thus: “The sins that cry to heaven for vengeance are: Wilful murder, sodomy, oppression of the poor, defrauding labourers of their wages.”<br />Anonymous 2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-37871957381916993122015-06-02T20:13:56.130-04:002015-06-02T20:13:56.130-04:00Anon 2, I think in many instances it is their own ...Anon 2, I think in many instances it is their own fault, especially in this country with all the support programs and free education/training that is available, not to mention the military (if you don't have a record). Many, many "poor" have escaped their situation in these ways. Unfortunately, our government (both Dem and Republican) has continued to create a welfare state that discourages initiative, destroys families, and offers only welfare or jail to many poor. More government programs is not the answer. I am not knowledgeable about economics, but it does seem to me that, with all the talk of a crumbling infrastructure, the need for environmental programs, re-building inner cities, etc. that this nation could employ these vast poor in ways that would save the gov't. money on entitlement programs and give job opportunities to millions. This would give people direction, teach them skills and responsibility, and provide them with some dignity and self-esteem which, in turn, would rebuild the families in the long run. No politician since Reagan has even talked about such a thing. As much as I don't like Democrats and socialism, it does make me wonder what would happen if a man like FDR were actually in office today. For all the problems I have with the long term effects of the New Deal, he was one of few Presidents in modern history with true vision, like him or not. I guess I should duck and run from the other conservatives on the blog now.<br />Angry Augustinianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558209425377293588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-54270086745604793682015-06-02T18:24:49.209-04:002015-06-02T18:24:49.209-04:00Anonymous2
" I suppose one problem is that t...Anonymous2<br /><br />" I suppose one problem is that the issues of abortion and same sex marriage might seem to be much more clear-cut and less complex than these other matters."<br /><br />Well, yes they are more clear-cut. It can't be denied that the poor are being oppressed in many countries of the world. There are in some areas where workers are being defrauded of wages. In fact, even worse, in some areas of the world there exists slave labor, even child labor. People that are illegally crossing our border to come into this country by the tens of thousands each year do so to escape these kind of conditions. What is an effective way to fight against these things is the problem. It could be said that the U.S. is doing its part by letting all these people in so they can earn a decent living (much better than from where they come from). Many things that we own, such as TV's, and smart phones are either assembled or the components manufactured under conditions most workers in the U.S. would find intolerable and unacceptable. What is the solution to that? <br /><br />There is no equivalence between abortion, which is always the taking of life of an innocent child, and these other other injustices you brought up. Are you saying there is? As far as marriage, it is God ordained to be between a man and a woman. That is Catholic teaching. Pretty simple and straight forward.<br />Georgenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-44954501339347682232015-06-02T13:09:42.205-04:002015-06-02T13:09:42.205-04:00I think it is still the same question – If they do...I think it is still the same question – If they don’t rise above it and remain in the same condition is that due to their own fault?Anonymous 2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-6912464044954310722015-06-02T08:18:32.898-04:002015-06-02T08:18:32.898-04:00I did not say that their condition was necessarily...I did not say that their condition was necessarily their own fault, but it is possible to rise above it and escape it. Angry Augustinianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558209425377293588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-58205072989724019962015-06-02T05:58:07.006-04:002015-06-02T05:58:07.006-04:00JJ:
So, is it your position that everyone who is ...JJ:<br /><br />So, is it your position that everyone who is poor (or “relatively poor”) in this country is poor due to their own fault? I have heard that this is the belief among some so-called conservatives. But how does one explain the poverty in white Appalachia then? What about working hard, acting responsibly, getting an education, etc.? Are we to assume that they didn’t? And that it is their fault? If it isn’t their fault, why assume it of everyone else?<br /><br />I agree completely about the need to focus also on global poverty and the tragic history and treatment of American Indians.<br /><br /><br /><br /> <br /><br />Anonymous 2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-10033722984452653362015-06-01T20:49:46.341-04:002015-06-01T20:49:46.341-04:00Perhaps wealth disparity has to do with the fact t...Perhaps wealth disparity has to do with the fact that certain factions of the population take risks, are creative in their enterprises, invest wisely, are thrifty, responsible, and plan ahead. Oh, wait, that must be "white privilege"…you know, hard work, abiding by the laws of the country, being responsible, studying and getting an education, yeah, that ol' white privilege.<br /><br />Now, just how oppressed are the poor in this country? I hear liberals whine and throw fits about it all the time, but they never mention other countries where the poor are far worse off. In fact, if you want to talk oppression, just check out almost any Third World or Iron Curtain country. Comparatively, the poor in this country have far more resources and a government that actually supports them (nominally) because they want to keep them poor too get their votes. Well, there are those in Appalachia who are truly poor, but they are white and generally conservative and religious so they get no press….also the American Indians have it pretty bad and were treated far worse than Blacks, but all the libs read "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee," cried a bit, started wearing American Indian clothes some, so that took care of it. It's all fixed now. Angry Augustinianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558209425377293588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-78891790854564920872015-06-01T18:10:57.639-04:002015-06-01T18:10:57.639-04:00Thanks for responding, Lefebvrian.
My thought wa...Thanks for responding, Lefebvrian. <br /><br />My thought was that it might be appropriate to have discussions on the Blog about politically controversial subjects related to the two sins of oppressing the poor and defrauding laborers of their wages just as we do about abortion and same sex marriage, especially as readers seek to form their consciences for the 2016 voting season and given the fact that issues related to growing wealth disparity and minimum wage, for example, promise to become quite prominent as we get closer to the elections. The further thought was that perhaps Father McDonald could provide a lead on these subjects in his postings. I suppose one problem is that the issues of abortion and same sex marriage might seem to be much more clear-cut and less complex than these other matters.<br /><br />However, I am happy to have conversation with you about it now. Perhaps one way to begin the conversation is to ask you about the sort of work you have been doing. We can then go on from there.<br /><br />Anonymous 2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-49266303733409267412015-06-01T09:02:41.571-04:002015-06-01T09:02:41.571-04:00Anonymous 2 and Gob,
I would love to discuss the ...Anonymous 2 and Gob,<br /><br />I would love to discuss the topic of the oppression of the poor. I have spent my entire career working with the poor for the specific purpose of protecting them from would-be oppression. So this is of particular interest to me. <br /><br />Do you have some specific aspect of this topic in mind to discuss?Lefebvriannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-45795012420071563872015-05-31T17:32:16.682-04:002015-05-31T17:32:16.682-04:00Anon2....I don't think we should hold our brea...Anon2....I don't think we should hold our breath....gobnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-66871643749974097382015-05-31T16:07:42.602-04:002015-05-31T16:07:42.602-04:00Anonymous Jan:
Thank you for sharing that illumin...Anonymous Jan:<br /><br />Thank you for sharing that illuminating passage. There is extensive discussion on the Blog regarding the sins of willful murder and sodomy centered on the politically controversial subjects of abortion and same sex marriage. I am now looking forward to similar extensive discussion regarding oppression of the poor and defrauding laborers of their wages centered on politically controversial subjects related to these two sins.<br />Anonymous 2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-51292457469122442932015-05-31T04:24:55.774-04:002015-05-31T04:24:55.774-04:00One can only imagine what might be taught in some ...One can only imagine what might be taught in some seminaries these days that has led to the denial of Catholic teaching on moral issues. What was taught last centuray was very clear and no doubt why we have good men like Cardinal Burke speaking out: <br /><br />" Sins that Tend to the Destruction of the Human Race<br />A striking passage from a manual of theology of the last century, once widely used in seminaries:<br /><br /> The sins that cry to heaven for vengeance are: Wilful murder, sodomy, oppression of the poor, defrauding labourers of their wages. This category of four grievous sins is not a class of the worst possible sins, for none of them are opposed directly to God, but of sins that must provoke God's anger in a way that we do not attribute to His Divine anger against many other sins, and because Holy Scripture speaks of them as a class apart and as crying to God for vengeance.<br /><br /> In the four sins mentioned above, the offence is directly opposed to nature and natural instincts, and therefore to the order in this world which God has taken supreme care to establish. Thus, wilful murder is directly opposed to God's sovereignty, Who alone is master of life; sodomy is a perversion of the true natural sexual instinct, which is designed to perpetuate the race; oppression of the poor extinguishes the ingrained sense of pity in the human heart; defrauding labourers of their wages is opposed to the social instinct that safeguards the property of the members of the body politic. It is obvious that these sins tend to the destruction of the human race.There is good warranty in Holy Scripture for putting these four sins in a class apart and considering them very heinous crimes. Thus : “The voice of thy brother crieth to Me from the earth;” “The cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is multiplied, and their sin is become exceedingly grievous;” “I have seen the affliction of my people in Egypt, and I have heard their cry because of the rigour of them that are over the works;” “Behold the hire of the labourers, who have reaped down your fields, which by fraud has been kept back by you, crieth; and the cry of them hath entered into the ears of the Lord of Sabbaoth” (Gen. 4, 10 : 18, 20 : 19, 13; Exod. 3, 7 ; Deut. 24, 14 ; Jas. 5, 4). [Rev. Henry Davis, S.J., Moral and Pastoral Theology, 4th ed. (New York: Sheed and Ward, 1943), pp. 214-15]."<br /><br />Jan<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-25367112666287477652015-05-30T20:46:56.759-04:002015-05-30T20:46:56.759-04:00Isn't the troll like 80-something years old?Isn't the troll like 80-something years old?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00554830859411216515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-44624670041346644082015-05-30T19:02:29.619-04:002015-05-30T19:02:29.619-04:00"Father forgive us for what we must do. You ..."Father forgive us for what we must do. You forgive us. We'll forgive you. We'll forgive each other 'till we both turn blue. Then we'll whistle and go fishin' in heaven...." tevyenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-40065681966591033802015-05-30T17:09:51.594-04:002015-05-30T17:09:51.594-04:00How long has it been since Ireland turned it's...How long has it been since Ireland turned it's back on God and is endorsing practices which are objectively evil. The souls of countless generations is a stake and still silence from the pope. It is a scandal of unparalleled proportion. Francis knows that if he dared oppose gay marriage that his world wide popularity would end. So he has been silent and it it defeating. There is no way to rationalize his behavior. He has time to speak out on every silly things that comes down the pike but on this he is silent. I want to know if he really believes in the Catholic Faith. And I'm sick and tired of the loyal son of the Church crap and that's what it is. He is a modernist bent on changing the Church, he needs to go. It's long over due. He isn't fit to teach catechism to 1st graders and everybody knows it. The time for keeping up the presence that we have to be respectful because he still bears the title of pope is crap also. Is he the pope? If he secretly held heresy in his heart at the time of election then his election was invalid. There needs to be a canonical trial held by the cardinals to put an end to this nonsense. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-62323038568783163082015-05-30T16:53:23.453-04:002015-05-30T16:53:23.453-04:00Maybe we could gather a group of jolly jansenists ...Maybe we could gather a group of jolly jansenists and start a movement to impeach Francis and Barack, and to root out and kill all of the liberal trolls.... gobnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-5510462159414767552015-05-30T16:16:42.693-04:002015-05-30T16:16:42.693-04:00John:
The notion that the English bury a dead cat...John:<br /><br />The notion that the English bury a dead cat in the walls originates in the practice alluded to in the expression “There’s not enough room to swing a cat.” It is what happens when there isn’t or they let go of the cat.<br /><br />Some people think that the origin of this expression is nautical but this is of course false.<br /><br />Anonymous 2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-7158741571472831312015-05-30T15:40:14.171-04:002015-05-30T15:40:14.171-04:00Paul likes to speak in mysterious riddles...likes ...Paul likes to speak in mysterious riddles...likes to sound deep and profound...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-60381217463821407982015-05-30T15:28:48.470-04:002015-05-30T15:28:48.470-04:00Actually, Anonymous/Gob is useful as an analogy fo...Actually, Anonymous/Gob is useful as an analogy for the Church today. He never says anything of value or substance, hates the Catholic tradition, whines a lot, and is an admitted troll...yet, Fr. will not ban him or suspend him…is this not a perfect parallel to the way in which the Church deals with her apostate Priests, Bishops and Cardinals and others within in who scorn the Church and her dogma?Angry Augustinianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558209425377293588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-48500849595058198022015-05-30T13:59:35.047-04:002015-05-30T13:59:35.047-04:00Intelligence without wisdom is a pawn.Intelligence without wisdom is a pawn.Paulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-55733463376930653542015-05-30T13:48:39.757-04:002015-05-30T13:48:39.757-04:00Perhaps "P. O. the pompous" would fit be...Perhaps "P. O. the pompous" would fit better as a Spiritual Work of Mercy....the liberal side of the coin that has "Admonish the Sinner" on the flip side.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-5056881904284845952015-05-30T12:10:59.955-04:002015-05-30T12:10:59.955-04:00John Knowland, I am actually only 13 years old.......John Knowland, I am actually only 13 years old....however, I am very intellectually advanced for my age.<br /><br />In the past few days I have performed three of the Corporal Works of Mercy....visited a friend in the hospital, attended a funeral and accomplished the little-known Work (known only by advanced Catholic scholars). Visit the sick, bury the dead, P.O. the pompous.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com