tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post5801704104583551501..comments2024-03-28T05:17:04.006-04:00Comments on southern orders: NOT ONLY DID I CONCELEBRATE THE MARIAN MASS OF MERCY TODAY WITH POPE FRANICS, I ALSO DISTRIBUTED HOLY COMMUNIOIN AND AFTER THE MASS WAS ABLE TO SHAKE THE HAND OF THE HOLY FATHER AS HE VISITED WITH THE CONCELEBRATING PRIESTS AND LINGERED WITH US!Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comBlogger56125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-34848726195450845472016-10-16T17:19:32.376-04:002016-10-16T17:19:32.376-04:00Gene, how does the ordination of a priest or the c...Gene, how does the ordination of a priest or the consecration of bread and wine take place without the presence of a bishop and/or priest?<br />Fr. Michael J. Kavanaughnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-26960178743633095232016-10-16T13:53:50.488-04:002016-10-16T13:53:50.488-04:00Human beings are instruments in the hands of the D...<br />Human beings are instruments in the hands of the Divine Priest, Christ Jesus, in conveying grace through His Holy Sacraments. This is an unmerited gift to us, that God out of His Love and Generosity gave us a role as co-operators in His work of salvation in the distribution of His grace. God surely does not need us in that He is complete and whole in His incomprehensible being and in His Divine Substance and Essence; and therefore not dependent on anything or anyone else for His existence, nor likwise for anything else that is encompassed in His Divine Nature and Being. God,through His love and generosity, has made us His adopted sons and daughters and participators in His Love and Divine Mercy.<br />We can, to be sure, acquire grace outside the Sacraments and we can do this through prayer and acts of mercy. We can also do it through the use of sacramentals, such as Holy Water. <br />We please God when we do what He desires of us. It is to our spiritual benefit when we do what is pleasing to God. His gift of love for us becomes our gift of love back to Him. When we please God it redounds to our benefit and to His honor. Through our spiritual works and actions, the Image and Likeness of God which we are made in, evinces it's pre-eminent purpose and produces its Divinely desired manifestation, and this because our God desires it and has made it so. There exists a mutual spiritual symbiosis in our right relationship to the Divine Being. Out of His Love for us, He makes necessary and pleasing to Himself that which He doesn't need because He subsists in Himself, but nonetheless desires of us; He likewise makes necessary to us that which we do and which is for our spiritual benefit, but can only come from us because He desires it, and so He provides to us the necessary grace.<br /><br />As it says in John 17:<br />"..so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me. And I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are one, in them and you in me, that they may be brought to perfection as one, that the world may know that you sent me, and that you loved them even as you loved me." <br /><br />Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05809499822558662728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-30317199739702452732016-10-16T10:20:38.974-04:002016-10-16T10:20:38.974-04:00The only Sacraments required for one to be in a St...The only Sacraments required for one to be in a State of Grace are Baptism and Penance. Either can be administered without a Priest, the latter upon condition that the Confession will be confirmed by a Priest later. Even matrimony can be done without a Priest and confirmed later in the Church. There is no ontological requirement not any efficient cause provided by the presence of a Priest. God's grace is efficacious completely independently of human cause and effect or human initiative. Simply put, God does not need us...worship, ritual, Sacraments are for us by his gift. He does not need them. To say otherwise is BS (that is a theological term).Genenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-58297727101788602362016-10-16T10:11:27.144-04:002016-10-16T10:11:27.144-04:00The necessity is an institutional/ritualistic one...The necessity is an institutional/ritualistic one, not a theological one. Kavanaugh, it is simple Biblical/ Trinitarian theology...nothing about God, His essence, the efficacy of His grace, His presence is predicated upon any human initiative. To say otherwise diminishes God and is, ultimately, Pelagian. It really isn't that difficult.Genenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-16312853218784698332016-10-15T08:59:18.164-04:002016-10-15T08:59:18.164-04:00Gene, I do not. The Incarnation underlies everyth...Gene, I do not. The Incarnation underlies everything about our sacramental system, including the necessity of the physical presence of the bishop/priest for the celebration thereof.<br /><br />Grace does, indeed, build on nature.Fr. Michael J. Kavanaughnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-4134806700942830482016-10-15T06:28:54.778-04:002016-10-15T06:28:54.778-04:00Kavanaugh, as usual, you miss the point entirely.Kavanaugh, as usual, you miss the point entirely.Genenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-6184979662085485702016-10-14T22:00:46.319-04:002016-10-14T22:00:46.319-04:00There is nothing careless or bad in my statement.
...<br /><br />There is nothing careless or bad in my statement.<br /><br />Grace Builds On Nature.<br /><br /><br />The necessity of personal presence is predicated on the Incarnation. The Incarnation, with its fleshiness, it earthiness, it's materiality is the glory of our broken humanity.<br /><br />No ordination takes place unless a human bishop lays his human hands on the human head of the human candidate for ordination. Take one of those humans out of the picture and the "efficacy" of the grace of ordination is moot.<br /><br />The consecration of bread and wine is wholly contingent on the words and actions of the priest, of his human presence in that moment, in that place, praying those words over these material elements.<br /><br />Fr. Michael J. Kavanaughnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-75167699933497640812016-10-14T15:38:53.920-04:002016-10-14T15:38:53.920-04:00Johnny C, in September 2013 A.D., via his intervie...Johnny C, in September 2013 A.D., via his interview with America Magazine, His Holiness Pope Francis acknowledged that he did not speak often about abortion. He said that he had been "reprimanded" for that.<br /><br />The day after the interview was published on America's web site, Pope Francis condemned abortion, From September 2013 A.D. to date, Pope Francis has time and again condemned abortion.<br /><br />In fairness to him, in 2013 A.D., early during his Pontificate, he joined Rome's March for Life. He encouraged the pro-life marchers to remain attached to the Culture of Life.<br /><br />Anyway, in September 2013 A.D., Pope Francis accepted the "reprimand" in question. Pope Francis has since spoken frequently against abortion.<br /><br />Pope Francis is a staunch promoter of the Culture of Life.<br /><br />Pax.<br /><br />Mark ThomasMark Thomasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-14666885046840609842016-10-14T13:38:37.111-04:002016-10-14T13:38:37.111-04:00"The Incarnation underlies this understanding..."The Incarnation underlies this understanding of the necessity of personal presence."<br /><br />That is a bit of bad theology or, at least, careless theological language. The efficacy of God's grace is not predicated upon human presence of any kind. God's presence and power are not contingent upon any determination of being. The Priest is chosen by God and given the grace to mediate God's presence. He is not necessary as an efficient cause or an ontological determinant. Genenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-42261598165228711172016-10-13T22:19:14.290-04:002016-10-13T22:19:14.290-04:00Jus, it is not, as far as I can tell, the intentio...Jus, it is not, as far as I can tell, the intention or thinking of the Church that a priest can/should consecrate bread/wine at a distance removed from the physical celebration.<br /><br />Catholic sacramental theology requires the personal presence of the bishop/priest for all sacraments. (A bishop can't ordain w/o laying on of hands, a priest can't give absolution over the phone or internet.)<br /><br />The Incarnation underlies this understanding of thr necessity of personal presence. It is a "human" thing, if you will. Fr. Michael J. Kavanaughnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-20930239024017371652016-10-13T22:18:43.561-04:002016-10-13T22:18:43.561-04:00Jus, it is not, as far as I can tell, the intentio...Jus, it is not, as far as I can tell, the intention or thinking of the Church that a priest can/should consecrate bread/wine at a distance removed from the physical celebration.<br /><br />Catholic sacramental theology requires the personal presence of the bishop/priest for all sacraments. (A bishop can't ordain w/o laying on of hands, a priest can't give absolution over the phone or internet.)<br /><br />The Incarnation underlies this understanding of thr necessity of personal presence. It is a "human" thing, if you will. Fr. Michael J. Kavanaughnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-31394662841746645692016-10-13T20:21:48.049-04:002016-10-13T20:21:48.049-04:00But Johnny....when you receive the host, you recei...But Johnny....when you receive the host, you receive the "body and blood, soul and divinity". I think you might need to study up a little.... gobnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-62197567225619625662016-10-13T16:22:59.324-04:002016-10-13T16:22:59.324-04:00From Cardinal Sarah's famous address:
"I...From Cardinal Sarah's famous address:<br /><br />"I think, that we need to rethink their appropriateness, especially if they lead priests into this sort of scandalous behaviour that is so unworthy of the mystery being celebrated, or if the sheer size of these concelebrations leads to a risk of the profanation of the Blessed Eucharist."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-15280473739120676402016-10-13T13:03:45.111-04:002016-10-13T13:03:45.111-04:00Mark Thomas
I think the most damaging words from ...Mark Thomas<br /><br />I think the most damaging words from Pope Francis were at the beginning of his pontificate when he said we should not be obsessed about abortion and homosexuality and he said it at a time when the devil is most stridently attacking the family on those two fronts. It sure seems as if the Pope is not supportive of the pro life movement and it emboldened liberal 'catholics' who place more importance on their liberal political ideology than on the teachings of Jesus. johnnycnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-26254514928028642982016-10-13T11:36:44.126-04:002016-10-13T11:36:44.126-04:00This is an interesting topic because it seems that...This is an interesting topic because it seems that this would have an ideal concern for Vatican II as a need to provide an understanding and option for Masses in this modern era of huge throngs on people. rcghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00661998350597126663noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-59379879175034919562016-10-13T10:17:56.684-04:002016-10-13T10:17:56.684-04:00" . . . they cannot be said to be concelebra..." . . . they cannot be said to be concelebrants unless they also received the Precious Blood."<br /><br />If they do not consummate the sacrifice of the Mass by receiving the Precious Blood, is their function simply the same as that of the priest who comes over from the rectory--or out of the confessional--at communion time to assist in distribution? That is, priests serving as ministers of holy communion (rather than as concelebrants, whatever they think or have been told their role is).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-66630607270420247422016-10-13T09:41:37.259-04:002016-10-13T09:41:37.259-04:00I agree with Mark Thomas, but it would help if the...I agree with Mark Thomas, but it would help if the HF would clarify his remarks. If he considers 'gender ideology' such a threat he needs to define exactly what he understands by the term, which is relatively new, and explain clearly why he considers it a threat. I doesn't require a long dissertation ghost-written by someone else - JP II's 'Ordinatio sacerdotalis' is admirably brief and to the point.<br /><br />Having watched the mega-Mass I observed the following. The Pope concelebrated mass more or less in the normal way. The priests in ranks on the southern side (remember the Pope was celebrating ad orientem!) processed with their ciboria into the crowd immediately after the Pax and before the Fraction, and began distributing Communion.<br /><br />Regardless of whether or not their hosts were subject to 'remote consecration', or whether or not they actually said the words of consecration, or whether or not they communicated themselves before leaving their places (which would be highly irregular given that the Pope had not said the Ecce Agnus Dei), they cannot be said to be concelebrants unless they also received the Precious Blood. A lay person or a non-celebrating priest may receive under one species only, but not a celebrating or concelebrating priest. Did they do so? I didn't see it. John Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027156691859606002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-25876399471652488812016-10-13T09:04:18.245-04:002016-10-13T09:04:18.245-04:00Methinks this blog's comments are beginning to...Methinks this blog's comments are beginning to exhibit all the subtly and sophistication of the current U.S. political campaign.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-38392579265365339552016-10-13T07:17:40.373-04:002016-10-13T07:17:40.373-04:00Father McDonald,
We haven't heard from you in...Father McDonald,<br /><br />We haven't heard from you in a few days. Are you being held against your will? Rood Screenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09816036539243214384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-28838125921710229242016-10-12T19:54:47.618-04:002016-10-12T19:54:47.618-04:00Many guys and gals here seem to get things like &q...Many guys and gals here seem to get things like "consecration" and "transubstantiation" mixed up with voodoo....gobnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-38007447009098364372016-10-12T19:34:11.313-04:002016-10-12T19:34:11.313-04:00TJM Like we ten year olds say on the (Catholic S...TJM Like we ten year olds say on the (Catholic School) playground...."I'm rubber, you're glue....what you say bounces on me and sticks on you.".gobnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-60908018270582636602016-10-12T19:03:39.696-04:002016-10-12T19:03:39.696-04:00Father you should stay in Europe until the end of ...Father you should stay in Europe until the end of the month that way you can celebrate the Reformation with that fat pig.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-25485110264842181852016-10-12T18:56:44.220-04:002016-10-12T18:56:44.220-04:00TJM...You sound like a 10 year old on the school p...TJM...You sound like a 10 year old on the school playground. gobnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-27941687435072270642016-10-12T18:31:20.147-04:002016-10-12T18:31:20.147-04:00Anonymous said..."The [nuns] credit Pope Fran...Anonymous said..."The [nuns] credit Pope Francis with their decision to wed according to the former nuns when he said WHO AM I TO JUDGE??? Ladies and gentleman words do have meaning and they acted on Pope Francis's words on board that jet headed back to Rome from Rio after World Youth Day."<br /><br />Anonymous, the nuns in question failed to act upon the following words from His Holiness Pope Francis:<br />=========================================================================<br /><br />-- Pope: Marriage is between a man and a woman - <br /><br />New York Daily News<br /><br />Oct 5, 2015 -<br />=====================================================================<br /><br />As Synod Starts, Pope Affirms Marriage Between a Man and a Woman ...<br /><br />www.ncregister.com/<br /><br />Oct 4, 2015 - Pope Francis celebrates the opening Mass for the Ordinary Synod of ... telling participants that the union between a man and woman is the ...<br />======================================================================<br /><br />Pope Francis declares union between man and woman 'at root of marriage'<br /><br />www.independent.co.uk <br /><br />Nov 18, 2014 - Pope Francis has apparently spoken out in defence of marriage as an institution between a man and a woman...<br />=======================================================================<br /><br />Pope Francis Says Marriage Between Man And Woman As Icon Of God's Love<br /><br /><br />www.huffingtonpost.com/<br /><br />Apr 2, 2014 - ROME (RNS) Pope Francis stressed the importance of marriage between a man and a woman at his general audience at the Vatican on ...<br />=======================================================================<br /><br />Pope: marriage between man and woman, no to gender ideology ...<br /><br />en.radiovaticana.va/<br /><br />Jun 8, 2015 - That's what Pope Francis told the bishops of Puerto Rico Monday, ... Pope: marriage between man and woman, no to gender ideology.<br />===================================================================<br /><br />Pope Goes Off Script to Underscore Man-Woman Marriage<br /><br />breitbart.com/...government/.../pope-goes-off-script-...<br /><br />Sep 16, 2015 - On Wednesday, Pope Francis left his prepared script to highlight the importance of the union of man and woman as the basis of true marriage. ... Marriage between one man and one woman is a theme throughout the Bible ...<br />====================================================================<br /><br />The nuns in question who referenced Pope Francis to justify their "marriage" have misrepresented Pope Francis in grotesque fashion. The nuns in question owe Pope Francis an apology. <br /><br />The nuns are called by God to confess that they have sinned in multiple ways. We must pray that the nuns return to God.<br /><br />Pax.<br /><br />Mark ThomasMark Thomasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-14984685231933466712016-10-12T16:58:43.066-04:002016-10-12T16:58:43.066-04:00Surely there's a better way to make an argumen...Surely there's a better way to make an argument than to call people "loons". We all need to brush up on our philosophical logic and rhetoric, if we haven't already studied these. Rood Screenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09816036539243214384noreply@blogger.com