tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post5720076424837986548..comments2024-03-28T20:30:10.681-04:00Comments on southern orders: THE sPIRIT OF VATICAN II AT WORK IN RAD TRADS AND LOONEY LIBERALSFr. Allan J. McDonaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-84770772971451260242013-11-23T21:50:51.986-05:002013-11-23T21:50:51.986-05:00So, what about apostate Priests who refuse to answ...So, what about apostate Priests who refuse to answer questions about fundamental beliefs…such as the Real Presence and the bodily resurrection of Jesus? HMMMM…and, according to what we may surmise from your history on this blog, your points 1 and 2 describe you precisely. Oh, the irony…heh, heh.Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-37099338259837484032013-11-22T09:04:55.954-05:002013-11-22T09:04:55.954-05:00"Radical Traditionalist" is not a redund..."Radical Traditionalist" is not a redundancy. All Catholics are Traditional, but not all are, nor should they be, Traditionalists.<br /><br />Good Father McDonald's use of "rad trad" is clearly negative, and he clearly explains his usage. Rad Trads, like "looney liberals" are outside the mainstream of Traditional Catholicism, either because they 1) don't know what the Church teaches and believes, or 2) they don't like what the Church teaches and believes and want to re-form the Church in a way that suits their politics.<br /><br />Rad Trads are, at root, Protestants who are unwilling to accept and believe all that the Catholic Church teaches to be revealed by God and true. <br />Pater Ignotusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-3260394376525635532013-11-22T06:38:18.551-05:002013-11-22T06:38:18.551-05:00Ignotus, to the contrary...my judicious and accura...Ignotus, to the contrary...my judicious and accurate use of "slurs," as you call them, particularly qualifies me to comment on them. "Radical traditionalist" is a redundancy. Either you are a traditional Catholic or you are something else...all the various designations for what this "something else"is do not matter. Unbelief goes by many names...Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-91633716998668784322013-11-21T17:28:21.049-05:002013-11-21T17:28:21.049-05:00Anon, the cardinatial commission which concluded t...Anon, the cardinatial commission which concluded that the Old Mass had never been juridically abrogated was appointed by JP II in 1986 although its decision was not made public at the time. Paul VI ordered in 1969 that henceforth only the new missal could be used, which is tantamount to forbidding the Old Rite. After all, when the Roman Rite had been revised in the past, the new edition had superseded the old. However, Bugnini knew perfectly well that his missal was more than just a revision, and so tried and failed to get the Old Rite formally abrogated. John Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027156691859606002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-41522390625732824032013-11-21T15:01:56.431-05:002013-11-21T15:01:56.431-05:00Pin/Gene - You are not exactly in a position to co...Pin/Gene - You are not exactly in a position to complain about slurs, since they regularly appear in your own comments about others.<br /><br />And there are many devout, believing Catholics who do not fall into the Radical Traditionalist category, thanks be to God.Pater Ignotusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-34280219961017667482013-11-20T17:28:21.705-05:002013-11-20T17:28:21.705-05:00"Rad Trad" is a slur on devout, believin..."Rad Trad" is a slur on devout, believing Catholics. It is the ecclesiological "n" word. If people are going to call us "rad trads," then I want to call the Obama constituency what my Dad and Granddad used to call them. Hey, fair is fair.Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-43285540903465433202013-11-20T17:24:51.991-05:002013-11-20T17:24:51.991-05:00"In short, one is worthy of comment and worry..."In short, one is worthy of comment and worry, and the other is not". What an unreasonable statement to make. Then by that reasoning why worry about discrimination if it on affects the minority. What a sorry statement to make. It just so happens that it is this minority that actually knows the Faith, loves the Faith and lives the Faith. The liberal "Catholics" are the majority and not only do they not believe what the Church teaches they hate what the Church teaches. The future is with Traditionally minded Catholics because in reality we are the only ones who care enough to stand up to error and evil and fight it. We don't compromise the Faith just to get bodies in the door. I believe Our Saviour said to preach the Gospel in good times and bad and if they refuse to listen to you shake the dust from your sandals and go to the next town. Our Lord never said compromise the Faith in order to make people feel better about themselves.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-77526611211097863912013-11-20T17:02:10.350-05:002013-11-20T17:02:10.350-05:00Pope Paul VI never forbade the ancient Latin Mass....Pope Paul VI never forbade the ancient Latin Mass. This determination was made by Pope Benedict after he had a commission investigate if the Mass was ever formally abrogated.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-59909015617513393222013-11-20T13:42:20.025-05:002013-11-20T13:42:20.025-05:00The constant attempt to bracket rad trads and loon...The constant attempt to bracket rad trads and looney liberals doesn't work very well. Actually, just doesn't ring true.<br /><br />Because the looney liberals are pervasively entrenched throughout the Church, controlling many of its power centers from seminaries and chanceries to parish rectories and religious education.<br /><br />Whereas the rad trads are a pathetic isolated microscopic minority largely outside the Church--in fringe groups like the SSPX--with no influence whatsoever.<br /><br />So while the looney liberals threaten the very continued existence of faithful Catholicism in whole countries, the rad trads are a threat to no one but their own tiny separatist groups.<br /><br />In short, one is worthy of comment and worry, an the other is not.Henrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-65608041675427571072013-11-20T09:15:40.266-05:002013-11-20T09:15:40.266-05:00Paul VI was the first pope to forbid the celebrati...Paul VI was the first pope to forbid the celebration of the classic Roman Rite. His successors have all but admitted that he was acting ultra vires. According to SP a monastic community can decide whether its conventual Mass should be EF or OF. With regard to the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate, I understand that requests to celebrate the Mass and Office in the older form have been speedily granted. So the sisters at Lanherne, Cornwall, who opted to use only the older books, continue to do so.<br /><br />Objections to the use of the Old Rite come mainly from the Italian bishops - some of them declared they would go into schism if B16 publicly celebrated it - and early in this pontificate they asked Pope Francis to restrict it. He sent them away with a flea in their ear and the admonition to "respect tradition".<br /><br />Bishop Malcolm MacMahon of Nottingham (ordained 1982) celebrated the tenth anniversary of his episcopal consecration in 2010 by celebrating a Pontifical High Mass in the Usus Antiquior, and has done so since. The new Bishop of Portsmouth, Philip Egan, has ordered the old Mass to be celebrated in his Cathedral every Sunday. On any Holy Day of Obligation I can attend a TLM at midday in Oxford, and it is well attended, not just by students and professional people in their lunch break, but by young families. Unthinkable even 20 years ago.<br /><br />There are some aspects of papal liturgies which I don't like, and which also happened under Benedict (the dreadful Italian responsorial psalm replacing the Gradual, the polyglot readings and bidding prayers, and the over-reliance on the hackneyed and mostly non-Gregorian Missa de Angelis) but I have never seen anything amounting to an actual abuse. Then again, I don't live in Rome, and if I did I would probably frequent SS Trinita dei Pellegrini.John Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027156691859606002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-59389832577883329522013-11-20T05:56:29.031-05:002013-11-20T05:56:29.031-05:00His words cause confusion. He commits liturgical a...His words cause confusion. He commits liturgical abuse because he wants to. He undermines official teachings of the Church by inane statements like "everyone has their own idea of what is good and evil and everyone should follow good"' "the Son of God became incarnate in the hearts of all men to instill a sense of brotherhood". He is the first pope to forbid celebration of the ancient Latin Mass. The entire world loves this man not because he teaches the truths of the Catholic Faith but because they believe he doesn't really believe them. And he refuses to confront and condemn the two greatest evils that are tearing the Church apart: abortion and "gay marriage". Just because he lowers the dignity of the papacy by acting and dressing sloppily doesn't mean he is humble it means he is a liberal. When they install his portrait in St. Paul Outside the Walls they should show him wearing a clown nose because that about sums him up. St. Francis confronted error, condemned it and taught the Catholic Faith. The real St. Francis called non believers to conversion, he didn't say it was "solemn nonsense". And all the "looney" trads have issues with Francis because he doesn't look, act or teach like a pope NOT because he does look, act and teach like a pope.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com