tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post5621713361897072798..comments2024-03-28T01:50:39.781-04:00Comments on southern orders: WHAT IF AND STATING THE OBVIOUS ABOUT THE HOLY SACRIFICE OF THE MASS!Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-773844378096056312015-03-08T04:58:52.705-04:002015-03-08T04:58:52.705-04:00Prior to Vatican II there was a unified sense of t...Prior to Vatican II there was a unified sense of the sacred in general in the Catholic Church and a very developed sense of reverence for the sacraments in general and for the Holy Eucharist in particular. The externals were unified as well. The laity couldn't enter the sanctuary or touch a chalice let alone the Eucharist.<br /><br />All this was stripped to make the laity feel more like priests in the supposed sense of the general priesthood of the laity because of baptism, not Holy Orders, but we all know that the lines of the ministerial priesthood and baptismal priesthood were blurred.<br /><br />So the laity could do almost everything the priest could do, enter the sanctuary, touch the host, distribute Holy Communion, stand like the priest to receive and on and on.<br /><br />The loss of the sense of reverence that was a unity prior to Vatican II will be very difficult to recover. Not all of it should be recovered but most of it should be.<br /><br />In addition, the emphasis on the Eucharist as meal to the great neglect of sacrifice contributes to the problem and you can see this already occurring in 1964's papal Mass.Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-64086136153435073912015-03-07T21:25:58.410-05:002015-03-07T21:25:58.410-05:00The problem with the Ordinary Form of the Mass is ...The problem with the Ordinary Form of the Mass is the involvement of lay people in the sanctuary, eucharistic processions, sign of peace, Extraordinary Ministers distributing Communion.<br /><br />This breaks up the Mass and turns it into more of a "performance". It is a constant distraction. However, I cannot see how this can be overcome because that is what the majority of people who attend the Ordinary Form of the Mass desire.<br /><br />JanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-17051229853199036672015-03-07T19:20:17.072-05:002015-03-07T19:20:17.072-05:00JBS,
"SP does not prevent the Holy See from ...JBS,<br /><br />"SP does not prevent the Holy See from altering the rite of Mass."<br /><br /><br />But of course, it's the Holy See. Thanks.Mariehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00003965922434128196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-41658670372114892272015-03-07T15:13:02.908-05:002015-03-07T15:13:02.908-05:00Marie,
SP does not prevent the Holy See from alte...Marie,<br /><br />SP does not prevent the Holy See from altering the rite of Mass. Rood Screenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09816036539243214384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-22063180372412734712015-03-07T13:58:53.651-05:002015-03-07T13:58:53.651-05:00Ah. What if? What if JFK had never been killed? ...Ah. What if? What if JFK had never been killed? What if Mr. Obama was not elected President? <br /><br />What if God allowed the desecration of the Holy Mass to test the hearts of his "faithful," to test the hearts of lay people, priests, nuns, bishops, cardinals, and even Popes? To test our generation as to the truth of their claims they are believers in the Word of God, Jesus Christ? To winnow the wheat from the chaff? What if?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-5455098365606505622015-03-07T13:23:19.356-05:002015-03-07T13:23:19.356-05:00Another problem, I think [I haven't checked]: ...Another problem, I think [I haven't checked]: It seems Summorum Pontificum does not allow mixing parts of the EF with the OF.Mariehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00003965922434128196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-80418983574658428152015-03-07T12:22:55.058-05:002015-03-07T12:22:55.058-05:00Fr. AJ., If/when the pope allows for the same thin...Fr. AJ., If/when the pope allows for the same things that the Anglican Use already allows. When do you think this would happen? 5, 10, 15 years?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-22378757402338949112015-03-07T11:36:19.520-05:002015-03-07T11:36:19.520-05:006. Mandatory birettas with poms.
7. Public pena...6. Mandatory birettas with poms.<br /><br />7. Public penance outside in front <br /> of church<br /><br />8. Married and women priests.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-54316740077564314212015-03-07T10:32:01.063-05:002015-03-07T10:32:01.063-05:00Dom Alcuin Reid has an extraordinarily informative...Dom Alcuin Reid has an extraordinarily informative article (click <a href="http://www.newliturgicalmovement.org/2015/03/dom-alcuid-reid-on-50th-anniversary-of.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>) at NLM today, on that so-called "first Mass in Italian" on March 7, 1965.<br /><br />That was actually the date of implementation of the instruction <i>Inter Oecumenici</i> “On the Proper Implementation of the Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy”. This Instruction made the changes in the traditional Mass that appear in the 1965 Ordo Missae—simplification of the initial prayers at the foot of the altar, elimination of the final Gospel, introduction of the prayers of the faithful—allowing for some use of the vernacular but retaining Latin for the Preface and Roman Canon (then still the only EP, and more important than the Latin, retaining most of the ritual action and ceremonies of the traditional Mass.<br /><br />It may be inferred that at this “first Mass in Italian” Paul VI actually said the Preface and Canon in Italian, as well as the other “prayers said only by the priest” (presumably including the collect, super oblata, and postcommunion prayer). It is unclear whether the Ordinary (Kyrie, Gloria, etc) was said in Italian.<br /><br />In any event:<br /><br />“it is worth noting that no less than Klaus Gamber judged the 1965 Ordo Missae (there was no 1965 Missale Romanum) to be <b>the last form of the traditional Roman rite, appropriately reformed according to the provisions of the Council</b>.” (As was plainly stated without reservation in the new revised 1965-1966 hand missals published in the U.S.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-49331693434188010772015-03-07T09:11:28.536-05:002015-03-07T09:11:28.536-05:00I strongly agree with the top 1-3.
As for the a...I strongly agree with the top 1-3. <br /><br />As for the additional items, the problem is that Sacrosanctum Concilium specifically calls for simplification of the rites, and revision of the calendar. And saying/singing a Proper Psalm in addition to a hymn, and the many gestures of the old Roman Canon, seem like examples of duplication "with but little advantage" which "are now to be discarded".<br /><br />I'd suggest reciting the Prayers at the Foot of the Altar with the altar boys before Mass begins, and reciting the Prologue of Saint John's Gospel after Mass. Rood Screenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09816036539243214384noreply@blogger.com