tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post4854317849726464772..comments2024-03-28T18:02:12.286-04:00Comments on southern orders: VERY SOBER, CATHOLIC NON IDEOLOGICAL EVALUATION OF POPE FRANCIS AND HOLY MOTHER CHURCH DURING THIS YEAR OF FATIMAFr. Allan J. McDonaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comBlogger48125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-4320693812800360792017-05-27T15:28:45.237-04:002017-05-27T15:28:45.237-04:00Common Catholic:
The last Obama Supreme Court nom...Common Catholic:<br /><br />The last Obama Supreme Court nominee, Merrick Garland, was a fine choice:<br /><br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merrick_Garland<br /><br />“On March 11, 2016, Senator Orrin Hatch, president pro tempore of the United States Senate and the most senior Republican Senator, predicted that President Obama would ‘name someone the liberal Democratic base wants’ even though he ‘could easily name Merrick Garland, who is a fine man.’ Five days later, on March 16, Obama formally nominated Garland for Supreme Court Justice.” <br /><br />But, of course, the Republicans wanted to play politics instead of doing their constitutional duty by giving him a hearing:<br /><br />“In an unprecedented move, Senate Republicans (under Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell) refused to consider Garland's nomination, holding "no hearings, no votes, no action whatsoever" on the nomination.” <br /><br />And then the Democrats turned around and played the same stupid, petty political game themselves by obstructing the confirmation of Neil Gorsuch. <br /><br />Pathetic all round!<br />Anonymous 2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-60915364851834865902017-05-27T12:40:18.445-04:002017-05-27T12:40:18.445-04:00One could certainly from objective observation, ch...<br />One could certainly from objective observation, characterize Mr Trump as an egotistical, narcissistic boor. Being of human nature though, it should be acknowledged that there is a more underlying complexity to his make-up as a person. No one here can say with certainty that Hillary Clinton is a better person than President Trump. And yes, for many who run for public office, it is about winning and power.Many who have run for higher office have already held positions of power and responsibility, and having been elected to whatever positions they have held, have what it takes to get elected. This gives them a leg up. What makes Mr. Trump different is that he has never held elective office. A person who holds public office must be judged by the actions they take, the policies they promote, and the laws and regulations they help bring to fruition. It is way to early to judge President Trump. Just on two fronts, unlike his predecessor, he is Pro-life and Pro-religious freedom(in the context of legal issues that are being hashed out in that arena). For that I am thankful, although what he can accomplish remains to be seen..<br />While Mr Trump's predecessor was outwardly possessed of a more agreeable and pleasant persona, he was not all that amenable or willing to compromise in the pursuit of his philosophical aims and objectives, some of which are, and have consequences, inimical to Christian belief, and will have a persistent effect for some time. We can thank God that he was not able to appoint more Supreme Court justices(being that Presidents of his philosophical bent always seem to get those who bring that philosophy to the bench).Common Catholicnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-57387857278633347732017-05-27T10:43:48.501-04:002017-05-27T10:43:48.501-04:00A2, for a bit of a more dogmatic approach, along t...A2, for a bit of a more dogmatic approach, along the lines of the article you linked, you might consider the Pohle-Preuss Dogmatic Theology Manual, which is (thankfully) <a href="https://archive.org/details/graceactualhabit07pohl" rel="nofollow">available online</a>.<br /><br />The section on predestination starts at page 222.Marchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13510317669833026685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-66070523363994166122017-05-27T01:22:10.625-04:002017-05-27T01:22:10.625-04:00Marc:
Thank you for the reference. I found the bo...Marc:<br /><br />Thank you for the reference. I found the book online and have been trying to read in it a bit this evening. It is, of course, very scholarly and not easy reading. Seeking commentary on the book I found this source, which also seems quite helpful on the general topic of predestination:<br /><br />http://www.cuf.org/2005/02/chosen-in-him-the-catholic-teaching-on-predestination/<br />Anonymous 2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-40184883702133517852017-05-26T20:59:02.774-04:002017-05-26T20:59:02.774-04:00A2, re-reading my comment above, I wanted to clari...A2, re-reading my comment above, I wanted to clarify the "which is questionable" part because it could sound like an insult the way it's written. That's not my intention. <br /><br />I was trying to say that I think topics like predestination aren't necessarily good matter for everyone to study or consider very much because it is one of those mysteries on which it is easy to slip off the rails. I personally found it more spiritually edifying than I expected, so you might as well. But you know yourself better than I know you, of course!Marchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13510317669833026685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-7584131103464983852017-05-26T18:36:00.985-04:002017-05-26T18:36:00.985-04:00Martin - Yes, my accusations are very serious. don...Martin - Yes, my accusations are very serious. don't need you to tell me that. His destructive behavior is very serious, and you should not need anyone to tell you that.<br /><br />Not being his spiritual director, a job I would not wish on my worst enemy, I can judge his inner life only by his outer actions. Start with five children by three wives and go from there...<br /><br />Why run for president? Because it is all about him/herself. That's what narcissists do. It's not about money for Trump - it's about winning. <br /><br />Fr. Michael J. Kavanaughnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-65290932251094966432017-05-26T17:03:42.450-04:002017-05-26T17:03:42.450-04:00Whatever Trump’s inner motivations, he has dragged...Whatever Trump’s inner motivations, he has dragged the Republic (and the Republican Party) further down into the swamp of political tribalism, incivility, falsehoods, disregard for facts and attacks on the truth, and as we now starkly see in Montana, physical violence approved by many in his base. He is truly a leader for our times. God help us. I, for one, cannot wait for him to be removed from the Presidency and for President Pence to take over (although I would personally much prefer a President Kasich).Anonymous 2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-36280538155159793792017-05-26T15:58:05.143-04:002017-05-26T15:58:05.143-04:00A2, the Akin article seems to approach the issue f...A2, the Akin article seems to approach the issue from an interesting perspective. The second article is rather fluffy. <br /><br />This question is a very intricate theological question that has resulted in fractured schools of thought, even among Thomists. I recommend for your consideration a book called Predestination by Fr. Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange, the most esteemed Thomist of the 20th century. In the book, he explains the question in great detail and refutes the Molinists and the Calvinists, among others. He also provides a history of the theological thought on this topic. It is a difficult and technical book, but understanding this question greatly increased my appreciation for God's sovereign will and love for mankind, so it is definitely a worthwhile read. <br /><br />I don't think that finding articles by armchair theologians like Jimmy Akin is going to give you a real good understanding of the depth of this issue. It is simply too complex for that sort of pithy analysis. That is, of course, if you are inclined to study it at all, which is questionable. As I said, it was good spiritual reading for me and not just something to increase technical understanding. So I recommend it. Marchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13510317669833026685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-32592109229875422192017-05-26T14:49:20.315-04:002017-05-26T14:49:20.315-04:00Father Kavanaugh:
I'm sorry to say that your ...Father Kavanaugh:<br /><br />I'm sorry to say that your response, in defense of your claim to know President Trump's inner life to the extent that you can assert his approach to public policy is aimed at his own benefit, and excludes acting for the benefit of the country, is most unpersuasive.<br /><br />Demonstrating that he has flaws was not necessary; his flaws are manifest. That he pursued business deals for his own benefit isn't probative. Business deals are, generally, for ones own benefit -- that's the point (although that doesn't prevent that same deal benefiting others as well). <br /><br />And pointing to what "most commentators" say is very weak tea. Who cares? You are simply pointing to <i>other</i> people who demonstrate no more real knowledge of Mr. Trump's inner life than you do.<br /><br />The accusation you made against him is very serious. <br /><br />But beyond that, it hardly explains anything. <br /><br />Let us, for sake of argument, suppose you are right: that Mr. Trump's fundamental motivation is his own benefit -- not the nation's benefit. Then why run for President? Do you really think he will make himself richer as president, than not? He has spent a significant sum of money seeking the presidency; and now that he is president, he is foregoing a not-insignificant amount of income and business activity. It is far-fetched to suppose that being president will enrich him materially. Before taking office, he could spend all the time he wanted on making money; if he is spending any time on money-making now, it is certainly much less. And he is subject to far greater scrutiny than before. And, he faces new legal risks. And, he has almost certainly alienated people who might otherwise have been customers. Fr Martin Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01375628123126091747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-15097699414813251902017-05-26T14:44:11.628-04:002017-05-26T14:44:11.628-04:00Marc and Father Kavanaugh:
In researching this is...Marc and Father Kavanaugh:<br /><br />In researching this issue, I found the following articles, which make a lot of sense to me. What do you think about what the authors write? <br /><br />http://jimmyakin.com/2006/08/who_does_god_lo.html<br /><br />http://www.dominicanajournal.org/does-god-love-some-people-more-than-others/<br /><br /><br />Anonymous 2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-67378965773611042712017-05-26T13:55:09.748-04:002017-05-26T13:55:09.748-04:00I'll stick with St. Thomas on this topic inste...I'll stick with St. Thomas on this topic instead of Michael Kavanaugh. Marchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13510317669833026685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-73297051159116575702017-05-26T13:49:59.573-04:002017-05-26T13:49:59.573-04:00God wills that all be saved.
Being saved is bette...God wills that all be saved.<br /><br />Being saved is better than not being saved.<br /><br />Not all are saved, not because God wills SOME to be saved and OTHERS to be damned, but because some reject salvation (free will). <br /><br />This is not evidence of preferential love by God for some, since God loves all equally, but of the rejection of that love by the individuals who act is ways that lead to condemnation.<br /><br />Christ died for all, opening the way to salvation for all. That Christ died for all, not only those "predestined" for salvation, is further evidence of God's unqualified love for all.<br /><br /><br />Fr. Michael J. Kavanaughnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-79366366734041253282017-05-26T08:52:48.821-04:002017-05-26T08:52:48.821-04:00In the broad sense, God loves everyone. No one con...In the broad sense, God loves everyone. No one contests that. God wills all men to be saved, and no one contests that. All men are not saved, though, and no one can contest that. St. Thomas addressed this paradox, expounding on St. Augustine. <br /><br />If one thing is better than another, it is because God wills the better for one thing and not the other: that is, God loves one thing more than another because God is the cause of good. <br /><br />We cannot save ourselves, contrary to Pelagianism. Some are saved and some are not through God's permissive will. Therefore, those who are saved are saved because God wills the better for them. Hence, God loves some more than others. <br /><br />Ite ad Thomam.Marchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13510317669833026685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-1827236403019648372017-05-26T08:09:44.732-04:002017-05-26T08:09:44.732-04:00This is not correct: "God loves some more th...This is not correct: "God loves some more than others."<br /><br />CCC 605 "At the end of the parable of the lost sheep Jesus recalled that God's love excludes no one: "So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish." He affirms that he came "to give his life as a ransom for many"; this last term is not restrictive, but contrasts the whole of humanity with the unique person of the redeemer who hands himself over to save us. The Church, following the apostles, teaches that Christ died for all men without exception: "There is not, never has been, and never will be a single human being for whom Christ did not suffer." <br /><br />This and many, many other sources can be cited to show that the idea that "God loves some more than others" is incorrect.<br />Fr. Michael J. Kavanaughnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-17660166289273925302017-05-26T05:30:31.259-04:002017-05-26T05:30:31.259-04:00A2, it's impossible to understand why God allo...A2, it's impossible to understand why God allows some people to be born into non-Catholic families. Regardless, we know that everyone whom God wills to be saved will infallibly be saved. Others will be damned by their own sinfulness. This follows from God's predilection for some souls: God loves some more than others. The mystery of predestination is not for us to comprehend. And it's impossible to address your thought-question without reference to the concept. <br /><br />It should be said that even those of us born outside the faith can convert and be saved, if it is God's will. And He will save us, if He so chooses, even if he has to send an angel to preach the Gospel to us to accomplish His ends. <br /><br />To finish up the discussion of Trump, I don't read too much into his phrasing. I don't expect linguistic precision from politicians since their words are generally, I assume, calculated to actually say as little as possible. Plus, we're talking about Trump -- I don't expect precision from him in any case. Marchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13510317669833026685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-90972482507128461712017-05-25T21:24:16.610-04:002017-05-25T21:24:16.610-04:00I agree with Marc's comment at 5:54.
Barack O...I agree with Marc's comment at 5:54. <br />Barack Obama did things that if Mr Trump were to follow suit, it would generate all manner of self-righteous condemnation from his opponents. The occupation of politician carries with it all manner of negative connotation but that did not begin with Mr. Trump.<br />It is interesting how some Christians would still vote for Hillary Clinton today, even given who she would nominate to the Supreme Court, her philosophy of support for Planned Parenthood, and given her philosophy and convictions, other things she would do which would be inimical to faithful followers of Christ. Common Catholicnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-51296086605723170342017-05-25T21:20:57.122-04:002017-05-25T21:20:57.122-04:00Marc:
I understand your point about linguistic co...Marc:<br /><br />I understand your point about linguistic convention but Trump did not have to use that language. For example, he could have said “Saudi Arabia is home to the holiest sites in Islam.” The fact that he did not but used the language he did is telling, as is the strongly arguable (albeit not inevitable) implication from his accurate statement that terrorists do not worship God: namely, that Muslims who are not terrorists may worship God.<br /><br />More profoundly, I want to ask you: If, as we believe, God creates our souls and all humans bear His image and likeness, isn’t He responsible for a soul being born into a Muslim family and an Islamic culture or, indeed, into any non-Christian family or culture? Given this premise, and absent a further premise regarding predestination, why in the name of Heaven would He then condemn that soul to perdition?<br /><br />By the way, even though we may reason our way to different conclusions, I do respect your conscientious approach when deliberating how to vote, as it seems you respect mine.<br /><br />Mark (aka Anonymous 2)<br /><br />Anonymous 2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-25442184366723805512017-05-25T21:18:34.267-04:002017-05-25T21:18:34.267-04:00Gene:
Big difference – Talmadge was not President...Gene:<br /><br />Big difference – Talmadge was not President representing the nation.<br /><br />Of course you overlook Trump’s brashness as you seem to share the same ethos and to practice the same sort of incivility. <br />Anonymous 2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-74905428201197094882017-05-25T19:51:11.870-04:002017-05-25T19:51:11.870-04:00The Catholic Church does recognize Islam as a reli...The Catholic Church does recognize Islam as a religion, and we do not use that term merely to avoid confusion. It is not a religion as we are a religion, but it is, properly, referred to as a religion.<br /><br />(We also recognize and refer to bishops in other Christian denominations as "Bishops." They are not bishops as we understand them, but they are, properly referred to as bishops. The Vatican does not refer to the current Archbishop of Canterbury as "Mr." Welby.)<br /><br />"The Church, therefore, urges her sons to enter with prudence and charity into discussion and collaboration with members of other RELIGIONS (caps mine). Let Christians, while witnessing to their own faith and way of life, acknowledge, preserve and encourage the spiritual and moral truths found among non-Christians, also their social life and culture." NA 3<br /><br />"Then [we refer] to the adorers of God according to the conception of monotheism, the Muslim RELIGION (caps mine) especially, deserving of our admiration for all that is true and good in their worship of God.” Paul VI Ecclesiam Suam 107<br /><br />"Our pilgrimage to these holy places is not for purposes of prestige or power. It is a humble and ardent prayer for peace, through the intercession of the glorious protectors of Africa, who gave up their lives for love and for their belief. In recall the Catholic and Anglican Martyrs, We gladly recall also those confessors of the Muslim faith who were the first to suffer death, in the year 1848, for refusing to transgress the precepts of their RELIGION (Caps mine).” Paul VI, Address to Islamic Communities, 1 August 1969<br /><br />Etc Etc Etc<br /><br />Fr. Michael J. Kavanaughnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-35670376468617203282017-05-25T17:54:03.127-04:002017-05-25T17:54:03.127-04:00Mark, Islam is "one of the world's great ...Mark, Islam is "one of the world's great faiths," as that phrase is popularly understood. As Catholics, we can recognize that it isn't even properly called a "religion," but we can use commonly understood phrases to describe things to avoid confusion (as in, when we refer to "the Methodist church," even though technically it isn't a "church"). <br /><br />I find Trump to be an annoying personality, and I probably disagree with many of his positions, to the extent he has positions and they can be understood. His mismanagement of the White House is surprising to me since I thought that might be his strong suit. But, then, I remember when he went bankrupt (although I was like 10 years old at the time). <br /><br />I'm bothered that I have to vote for someone like Trump. I wish our political system presented better options. As I hope you can see by my comments here over the years, for all my faults, I try to let my faith drive my political choices despite having a degree in political science. While I don't wish to rehash the debate we've had before, I don't think a Catholic can in good conscience vote for someone like Hilary Clinton. And I think that the Supreme Court appointments alone necessitated a vote for Trump. So I'm firmly not in the Trump apologetics business. I hope that he accomplishes certain aspects of his platform: immigration reform, tax cuts for the middle class, reduction of health care costs, decrease in abortion and funding for Planned Parenthood. At this point, I'm not sure he'll get very far because of the ridiculous Republicans. <br /><br />My first priority is my faith, as I said. I don't think it's proper for Catholics to put politics first and then wedge that into the faith or use it to justify some religious position. We probably agree on that point. Yet, we come to different conclusions politically.Marchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13510317669833026685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-85048079918307680242017-05-25T17:14:50.813-04:002017-05-25T17:14:50.813-04:00I will note that Gene and Herman Talmadge and Geor...I will note that Gene and Herman Talmadge and George Wallace we also of the overt RACIST stripe. Funny they should be mentioned as members of Gene's political populist pantheon...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-91795925679545596392017-05-25T16:27:13.539-04:002017-05-25T16:27:13.539-04:00Anon 2, So, what is it about Trump's statement...Anon 2, So, what is it about Trump's statements? They are plain, political statements. Muslims are still one of the most undesirable, primitive, and savage religions on the face of the earth. I do not worship Trump...in fact, the jury is still out on him because his presidency is barely begun. But, I like what he has done so far. I'll overlook his brashness and his populist swagger. I grew up in the era of Gene and Herman Talmadge, Edwin Edwards, George Wallace, and others of that popuist stripe. Trump has nothing over Gene Talmadge, who once said, "Ya'll got three friends in this world...Jesus Christ, the Sears and Roebuck catalog, and Gene Talmadge." In response to accusations that he stole money from the government to spend on local farm programs, he said to a huge crowd of south Ga. farmers, "Yeah, I stole...but I stole for ya'll." He was re-elected in a landslide. All you liberals were wearing Depends everyday back then, too.Genenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-2241660435200689722017-05-25T16:08:50.766-04:002017-05-25T16:08:50.766-04:00Marc:
Thank you for your response.
You refer to...Marc:<br /><br />Thank you for your response. <br /><br />You refer to your “firm belief that Islam is a false religion whose adherents unwittingly worship demons.” President Trump, on the other hand, called Islam “one of the world’s great faiths.” There is, to say the least, a tension between these two characterizations.<br /><br />I don’t have a problem with what President Trump said. It seems to me that you and like-minded others should.<br /><br />More generally, we agree about the absurdity of our Middle East policy. For example, one can still appropriately support Israel while avoiding absurdities such as unleashing the demons of Hell by invading Iraq as we did.<br /><br />I do appreciate proper application of the scientific method and intellectual honesty; indeed, Trump’s own failures in this respect provide yet another reason, among many, why I find him so appalling. <br /><br />And now we learn about the cruel exclusion of Sean Spicer, a devout Catholic, from the audience with the Pope, something he reportedly had set his heart on. We must await better information to know whether or not Trump himself was responsible for this exclusion but it would certainly be in keeping with his apparently cruel nature. Perhaps Sean is now, in Trump’s eyes, just another “loser.”<br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymous 2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-78615167028493725022017-05-25T15:10:32.374-04:002017-05-25T15:10:32.374-04:00Response to A2, as requested:
Everything in that ...Response to A2, as requested:<br /><br />Everything in that quote you pasted is correct: Saudi Arabia is home to one of the holiest sites in Islam, etc. Those are just factual statements. There are positive things about Islam and Muslims -- everyone is created by God and bears His image so no one is completely evil. That doesn't change my firm belief that Islam is a false religion whose adherents unwittingly worship demons. It is an inversion of Catholic Christianity so that is very likely a scourge sent by God, as some saints taught. <br /><br />That being said...<br /><br />As a political strategy, it makes sense to focus on building positive relationships with Muslim governments so that they can try to help root out those amongst themselves that are prone to violence. Trump is deftly attempting this, it seems to me. Whether that is the reality, I question because I think that our government's absurd Middle East policy causes more harm than good, especially our unconditional support for Israel. <br /><br />I don't know whether Trump is a narcissist or not. I don't think it's meaningful for a mental health professional to purport to pass judgment on someone whom that person has not evaluated. I'm sure as a person interested in proper application of the scientific method and intellectual honesty you can appreciate that. Marchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13510317669833026685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-21484323272340974472017-05-25T14:23:01.973-04:002017-05-25T14:23:01.973-04:00Boy, this went off the rails quickly.
It seems ...Boy, this went off the rails quickly. <br /><br />It seems some people are defending the Pope because they dislike Trump. Others are torn because they don't like Hunwicke. Neither of those are sane responses. rcghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09131930849106490711noreply@blogger.com