tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post4789271963983088211..comments2024-03-28T20:30:10.681-04:00Comments on southern orders: A CHASTENED POPE FRANCIS? Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-50723170715865570882014-10-21T01:50:30.362-04:002014-10-21T01:50:30.362-04:00I just read this on CBS new site (Oct. 20, 2014):
...I just read this on CBS new site (Oct. 20, 2014):<br />“NEW YORK — After Roman Catholic bishops meeting at the Vatican failed to agree on the issue of homosexuality in the church, Pope Francis appeared barely able to contain his frustration, cautioning the bishops Saturday not to cling to doctrine with “hostile rigidity” and saying the next day that “God is not afraid of new things.”…”<br />Now, if that isn’t misrepresenting what he said, I don’t know what is. Where was his "frustration"?<br />They go on to report various “Dignity” groups (gay) are openly defiant, and one priest who ministers to them says, “”If they really follow through and are consistent, that’s good, but I don’t see how the church has any business dictating people’s behavior, the business of the church is to proclaim the Kingdom of God,” said the Rev. Dan McCarthy, who also performs liturgies for the Dignity congregation. He said he’s been around for too long to rely on Vatican hierarchy for such guidance.”<br />So, my concern is that many Catholics are getting the story on this from MSM outlets, and it’s really bad coverage. Notice there is no mention of Pope Francis’ balanced comments about the various temptations, let alone his criticism of too much mercy without doctrine, “the destructive tenancy toward goodness” as he called it.<br />How will our Christian brethren who don’t look into it further to discover what actually happened? Oh, Satan is hard at work, he is.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-39377310921529584852014-10-20T00:34:56.346-04:002014-10-20T00:34:56.346-04:00On the local news tonight coverage of the Synod co...On the local news tonight coverage of the Synod consisted of the news anchor reporting that Pope Francis was clearly upset by the removal of positive paragraphs about acceptance of gays and the divorced in the final document. <br />I heard this after I had read the text of his homily, and for the life of me, I just can't see how they came to this conclusion from his homily. But I am sure that for many, many Catholics, (and many Protestants who watch these kinds of happenings and worry about them too) the only thing they are going to know about the Synod is what the MSM (main stream media) tells them. Pity. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-37909638493624604032014-10-19T22:11:01.794-04:002014-10-19T22:11:01.794-04:00Francis is determined to have God surprise us and ...Francis is determined to have God surprise us and for us to try new things. The seminaries tried new things a while ago and it was the devil that surprised us. I’ve read that a majority at the synod were in favor of the first draft. That was on Huffington Post, but I believe Gene read something similar elsewhere. It appears to be true. Now we are going to have local discussions on the full text of Relatio and you can imagine the kind of garbage that is going to be concluded by liberal bishops around the world. I repeat that it is time for aggressive dissent against this pope as much as we may hate to risk damaging the respect for the papal office, it is clear that the man sitting in the chair is leading the Church in the wrong direction. The Holy Spirit might be calling many people to action. Let’s hope that people have the courage to answer the call. For those waiting for a divine intervention on this pope, you might wait until it’s way too late.<br />Mike<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-80793237471314474212014-10-19T19:57:55.073-04:002014-10-19T19:57:55.073-04:00FrAJM, I have considered that this is massive peri...FrAJM, I have considered that this is massive peripatetic exercise for the Pope, but I would not temp the Holy Spirit to unscrew something I knew shouldn't be done. At least I would not enjoy the reconciliation.rcghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09131930849106490711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-15374956728569380922014-10-19T14:27:33.966-04:002014-10-19T14:27:33.966-04:00Onr of the things I would like to see brought up, ...Onr of the things I would like to see brought up, discussed and recognized by the members of the Church is the objective nature and reality of sin. A Catholics we are taught and recognize the subjective reality (our personal culpability,responsibility and debt to God we incur). When Spanish missionaries were sent the the newly conquered and colonized territory of what is now Mexico(then know as New Spain), they found a people whose god required human sacrifice. The Aztec people had no concept of sin as we faithful Catholics and so such a practice presented no problem for them. It was a necessary and acceptable part of their belief system. Yet was what they we doing not an objective evil, a serious offense against the True God? These were a people in need of conversion and many of them eventually were converted from their evil ways and false religion . Cannot the same also be said of those members of ISIS and other terrorist groups? It matters not that by their actions they consider themselves martyrs.<br /> More pertinently for us, cannot the same be said of those Catholics who are in irregular marriages and receive Communion? Or practicing homosexuals who do so? Or those who use artificial means of contraception? Or those who pervert God's Holy Sacrament of Marriage? Does the fact that such things have become quite common in the world we now inhabit mean we should "institutionalize" these things and they then will no longer offend God? That Corinthians 11:23-30 is no longer relevant? It is true that people will go ahead and receive the Eucharist no matter what but at least the truth can be proclaimed to them. <br />When Moses was given the Ten Commandments and when Christ proclaimed the Gospel these were proscriptions teachings and instructions which came directly from God Himself. Who has the authority to overrule, nullify or change what God Himself has given to us? To those who believe that the final Synod will produce a document of pastoral guidelines which are not faithful to God's holy teachings, to these I say to pray and fast that nothing will transpire in Rome next year that will cause great harm to the Mystical Body, God's Holy Church on earth. Enough harm has already been done by her wayward members. Georgenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-31875847192313017992014-10-19T12:28:38.593-04:002014-10-19T12:28:38.593-04:00I saw Holy Spirit in the Synod Fathers' revolt...I saw Holy Spirit in the Synod Fathers' revolt. Is Francis not in danger of blasphemy, continually claiming that the Holy Spirit is behind his agenda, when in fact He might not be?Rhettnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-62174456987837103482014-10-19T11:04:30.470-04:002014-10-19T11:04:30.470-04:00It's coming. I can sense it. Pope Francis w...It's coming. I can sense it. Pope Francis will declare ex cathedra homosexual activities are no longer a sin.... masturbation is no longer a sin... pornography is no longer a sin... divorce and sex outside marriage no longer sins. Glory to God! The Church is going to be given back to the people! Vox Populi. Amen.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-68342476389353458602014-10-19T09:55:18.674-04:002014-10-19T09:55:18.674-04:00Yes, I think that the synod will embolden some peo...Yes, I think that the synod will embolden some people to hold on to heterodox teachings and why not-- there are cardinals who agree with them? Not good. Very divisive. I agree with everything Father Allan says and I wonder -- with all respect to the Holy Father- if he sometimes doesn't live in a bit of a bubble when it comes to these things. The Church Universal is not Argentina and perhaps he didn't anticipate the strong reaction from the African bishops. His speech didn't sound very coherent. The Church is divided enough as it is. I believe the Holy Spirit was there at the synod but not sure if everyone listens to Him. It was all very awkward and divisive.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-42476843443098562852014-10-19T09:45:03.028-04:002014-10-19T09:45:03.028-04:00RCG! The WILDCARD! THE HOLY SPIRIT!RCG! The WILDCARD! THE HOLY SPIRIT!Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-39870400218053839132014-10-19T09:35:39.472-04:002014-10-19T09:35:39.472-04:00Charles G has an interesting hypothesis, but what ...Charles G has an interesting hypothesis, but what if the Pope was wrong and the majority of bishops decided to change Church teaching? That would be reckless. rcghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09131930849106490711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-77021741804715941812014-10-19T07:23:19.802-04:002014-10-19T07:23:19.802-04:00Charles G, I like what you write. But indeed Pope ...Charles G, I like what you write. But indeed Pope Francis is an enigma and isn't integrated in how he presents the faith in his writings and talks, especially off-the-cuff. He talks too much and we hear too much especially now with the new media.<br /><br />I am uncomfortable and I hope what you say about his Jesuit genius is correct and he doesn't lead us down the path to schism that will last decades as it has in the past, especially early Church.Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-4735965717260798202014-10-19T07:13:06.635-04:002014-10-19T07:13:06.635-04:00@Anon 10:45PM: "There should be no more time...@Anon 10:45PM: "There should be no more time wasted attempting to explain Francis’ future ramblings in a way that would make them consistent with orthodox teaching. He needs to be challenged and corrected at every turn."<br /><br />I feel this is quite a wrongheaded approach. Given the Pope's role in the Church's Magisterium, I think it is incumbent to make every effort to try and interpret what he says in an orthodox fashion if possible. In virtue of his office, he is entitled to a certain amount of good will. This is why I don't understand why so many traditionalists are so down on people like Fr. Barron and Jimmy Akin. Yes, I think it a valid point to say that the release of a non-Magisterial document like the draft interim report probably did some irreparable damage in terms of the media spin and the low-info people's perceptions, but they are right to try to interpret the Pope's statements in the best and most orthodox way, and they were correct to point out that the draft interim report was not a magisterial document and did not change Church's teachings. There is a role for respectful critics, just as there is a role for those who try to interpret Pope Francis, like Vatican II, according to a hermeneutic of continuity. <br /><br />I think the orthodox do need to be vigilant, however, for the next Synod, the Apostolic Exhortation to follow, the curia reform (I rather dread the thought of extensive new powers to be spread to especially unorthodox bishops' conferences, like the German...), and indeed the rest of the Pope's pontificate, because his actions in this synod have made me a bit uneasy about his dedication to upholding the fullness of truth of the deposit of faith. Pope Francis' seeming support of the synod manipulators officially in charge call into question in my mind his support of orthodox teaching. On the other hand, this talk seems a bit more even handed, so maybe he really is just playing a clever clogs Jesuit ploy simply to allow both sides to fight it out, and then in the end to step in and act as a mediator seemingly above the fray to uphold both orthodox teaching and mercy. But who really knows at this point what's in his mind at this point?Charles Gnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-78293701857875639442014-10-19T06:32:16.188-04:002014-10-19T06:32:16.188-04:00Nobody is chastened. Did you pay attention to the ...Nobody is chastened. Did you pay attention to the numbers of those who supported the Pope…not encouraging. I also understand from another website (if true) that the Pope is insisting that Relatio be published including all the discussions and rejected articles. This is not going to end until Fr. Susan is blessing the marriage of Bruce and Bill at the abortion clinic...Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-3374067452722354412014-10-19T05:46:26.366-04:002014-10-19T05:46:26.366-04:00I think synods of this nature are confusing to ran...I think synods of this nature are confusing to rank and file Catholics too. It will be interesting at the end of next year's synod when a decree of some kind comes from the pope what it will contain. <br /><br />If synods are to help the pope get the pulse of the world's Catholics through their shepherds the bishops I think this can be good especially if the Deposit of Faith needs to be clarified or elements of it presented or taught where that has been lacking and we all know how much of the Deposit of Faith Catholics don't know and many theologians hate the term "Deposit of Faith" because it is static and not open to "gradualism" the most ridiculous theological concept I've heard rear its ugly head I though buried in the 1970's. <br /><br />I do think that Pope Francis was startled at the backlash he got from many of the bishops in the Synod and if the pope was a part of the initial shananaghans to railroad through a particular pastoral approach without the bishops even knowing it, then he should have been roundly booed as he evidently was although the booing directed toward Baldaserri. <br /><br />I suspect that there was a "come to Jesus" moment for the pope and that cardinals in high places, like Burke did publicly which may or may not be the best thing, certainly not for him, but it did and does embolden people to voice their objections to the direction of this papacy in a way that would have been unthinkable before the synod.<br /><br />Is this all the work of the Holy Spirit? I feel the Holy Spirit was rather dramatic especially this past Thursday. Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-54852204367955638552014-10-19T05:33:46.697-04:002014-10-19T05:33:46.697-04:00The BBC's take on this, judging from the bulle...The BBC's take on this, judging from the bulletin I've just heard, is predictable: Pope Francis's plans to make the Church more welcoming to gays and the divorced have failed to get the requisite support from the bishops. The Beeb seems to be under the impression that the Synod is a 'parliament' like the General Synod of the Church of England which decides doctrine and policy. The quote from Cardinal Nichols which accompanied the report was designed to give the impression 'don't be despondent; it's still early days'.<br /><br />His Eminence, who travelled with Cardinal Hume to the 1980 Synod on the family, now has the opportunity to put the media right. I hope he doesn't waste it. <br /><br /><br /><br /><br />John Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027156691859606002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-44510655675238274652014-10-19T05:27:05.971-04:002014-10-19T05:27:05.971-04:00His Holiness also makes stark distinctions that ar...His Holiness also makes stark distinctions that are stereotypical and I certainly feel this does not serve the ministry of unity at all and could radicalize different factions in the Church. He makes clear that he thinks traditionalists don't care about people, when in fact they do but in a different way that His Holiness' ideology or taste. It is very 1970's when priests thought that being sacramental wasn't serving the poor, a priest had to be a social worker and a political revolutionary outside of the church building. Beauty of liturgy was substituted for the "military" uniform of a revolutionary, like that of Castro and other South American banana republics. Perhaps the experience of traditionalism in South America, with the hierarchy wedded to the ruling class that was right wing in the political sense has bruised and tainted Papa Bergolio's understanding of traditionalism although there are elements of fascism in traditionalism especially the SSXP!<br /><br />Also keep in mind that many German fascists (Nazis) escaped to Argentina after the war to escape being placed on trial or persecuted. The traditionalist movement in Argentina has a very ugly side to it and Cardinal Bergoglio experienced it first hand.<br /><br />Think of Bishop Williamson in the SSPX and the fact that there is that strain of antisemitism in the French wing of the SSPX and a desire to go back to the French system prior to the French Revolution. All this is political too. Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-34503648374163554672014-10-19T05:17:35.101-04:002014-10-19T05:17:35.101-04:00I sense that Pope Francis is conflicted between tr...I sense that Pope Francis is conflicted between traditionalism as he describes it on one hand and liberalism or progressiveness as he describes it in this talk. I find most of his talks are actually self-referential in terms of his peccadilloes. Freud would have a field day. I see a pope torn between the two extremes and his talk shows it too. Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-74562849224829884872014-10-19T02:40:17.465-04:002014-10-19T02:40:17.465-04:00Given the times, thankfully, the Real Presence was...Given the times, thankfully, the Real Presence wasn't up for debate or pastoral coddling.Paulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-51105406198443316852014-10-19T00:39:01.391-04:002014-10-19T00:39:01.391-04:00Yes, I totally agree with Mark. Cardinal Burke ha...Yes, I totally agree with Mark. Cardinal Burke has, through the grace of God, managed to stave of this onslaught against Christ's teaching.<br /><br />Pope Francis, by appointing six liberal bishops to write the mid-week report, which so shocked many Catholics some of whom are threatening to leave the Church over it, has made his position clear and can no longer hide behind mistranslations and muddled words. The fact that after 18 months or so as calling himself only the "Bishop of Rome" and implying that he is only one bishop among many to suddenly reassert that he is Pope and Supreme Pastor etc makes me wonder if he is going to attempt next year to push through changes to Church teaching now that he knows he does not have the mandate of the bishops to do it.<br /><br />Jan<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-41904724639424163152014-10-18T22:45:28.171-04:002014-10-18T22:45:28.171-04:00The damage has been done. You will have many hete...The damage has been done. You will have many heterodox characters taking the lead from this synod and “in anticipation of the new openness” will begin to teach the sacrilege from the first draft Relatio. There is nothing in Francis’ speech that leads me to believe that he doesn’t have the most displeasure for those gosh darn traditionalists, rather his comments confirm those feelings. There should be no more time wasted attempting to explain Francis’ future ramblings in a way that would make them consistent with orthodox teaching. He needs to be challenged and corrected at every turn. He now will take the next year to build momentum for his cause and will do all he can to stack the deck with more progressives. I would suggest that devout priests and bishops form groups of faithful people to attend next year’s synod. People should hold prayer vigils in St. Peter’s square with banners and posters that indicate why they are there. If people fall asleep on this without taking aggressive action then next year a much different outcome is all but certain. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-80174025192853459182014-10-18T20:28:32.606-04:002014-10-18T20:28:32.606-04:00Did the Pope really say anything? I watched a cou...Did the Pope really say anything? I watched a couple of the press conferences...secular politicians could learn much from the official spokesmen in how to answer a question by using many words and saying nothing.<br /><br />"Dear brothers and sisters, the temptations must not frighten or disconcert us, or even discourage us, because no disciple is greater than his master; so if Jesus Himself was tempted – and even called Beelzebul (cf. Mt 12:24) – His disciples should not expect better treatment."<br /><br />This is very troubling. The pope seems to be very egocentric here. I know of no one calling him names. There were calls for him to speak and dismay at his silence that lead to speculations. This synod is very troubling. NO synod of the Church should even think of thinking about changing, updating etc doctrines of the Church.<br /><br />What we have witnessed here is the floating of trial balloons to see how the wind is blowing. Like how secular leaders who wish to change culture do things. Thanks to God for men such as Burke who saw the balloons and popped them.<br /><br />Mark <br />The Anglican PriestAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-10178888296009296372014-10-18T17:56:56.472-04:002014-10-18T17:56:56.472-04:00I don't trust him. He showed his true colors. ...I don't trust him. He showed his true colors. <br /><br />I'll pray that God stops him from trying to allow: sacraligeous communions, divorce, homosexual unions and any other immorality. But I expect he will double down on his efforts for the synod next year but he will be more sly about his motives.<br /><br />I predict that to get even with the orthodox bishops who thwarted him Piero Marini will be announced a prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship.<br /><br />I predict Archbishop Forte will be named a Cardinal. <br /><br />I predict cardinals Muller and Pell will be reassigned.<br /><br />Bombshell prediction: I believe he will allow Cardinal Burke to keep his current position but will just ignore him and anything he has to say. I say this because I think Francis fears Burke's real humility and his superior intellect. It's better to keep your enemies close. And if Burke remains in his position he will have to restrain his speech.<br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-33184548381405560842014-10-18T17:51:27.397-04:002014-10-18T17:51:27.397-04:00Who cares I'm sleeping in tomorrow. What's...Who cares I'm sleeping in tomorrow. What's the point...RSMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-78624042051824828352014-10-18T17:46:01.652-04:002014-10-18T17:46:01.652-04:00Looks like the media have finally noticed that the...Looks like the media have finally noticed that the synod didn't go as planned: it's all Cardinal Burke's fault, apparently, justifying his demotion (does this spin come from the Vatican or from Burke's US opponents?).<br /><br />I'm normally not a fan of Damian Thompson's blog (now in the Spectator), but he seems to be the only voice in the mainstream English media to diverge from the standard liberal spin.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13873507031809422203noreply@blogger.com