tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post41506757398909214..comments2024-03-28T20:30:10.681-04:00Comments on southern orders: WHAT ABOUT CARDINAL SARAH'S INPUT? DID HE KNOW THIS WAS COMING AND WHAT ARE HIS THOUGHTS?Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-78902891683937849992017-08-25T09:24:01.189-04:002017-08-25T09:24:01.189-04:00From the inimitable Fr. Hunwicke:
All over the wo...From the inimitable Fr. Hunwicke:<br /><br /><i>All over the world, cathedral and church sanctuaries are being freed from the worst of the mistakes of the 1970s. And Pope Francis, in his latest address, includes a fine section explaining the importance of this instinctive respect for the Altar. <b>(Might it perhaps have been written for him by Cardinal Sarah?)</b> And, while I am on this subject, I will remind you of the Holy Father's Address at the general audience of August 2, when he spoke about the liturgical significance of facing East. He lamented that "in modern times, the fascination of this rite [facing East in Baptism] has been partially lost: we have lost sensitivity to the language of the cosmos". <b>(Might he perhaps have listened to Cardinal Sarah?)</b> Traddies should not always too readily assume that everything Jorge says is the blackest villainy.</i><br /><br />http://liturgicalnotes.blogspot.com/2017/08/irreversible.htmlHenrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-31068174469790882802017-08-25T06:08:36.719-04:002017-08-25T06:08:36.719-04:00Liturgists (and by this I mean genuine liturgical ...Liturgists (and by this I mean genuine liturgical scholars) do not believe it is possible or desirable to implement a ROTR which would synthesize the Missal of 1962 (which is essentially the Tridentine Rite) with that of 1970. What would we end up with? It would be closer to 1967 than 1964.<br /><br />Another factor is that the number of options in the Novus Ordo means we are not dealing with a single rite, but what is in effect a multiplicity of rites under the same umbrella, made even more diverse by the babel of vulgar tongues wherein these rites are delivered.<br /><br />The principal and massively popular Sunday Mass at the London Oratory is according to the Novus Ordo. It is sung in Latin, with deacon and subdeacon, ad apsidem at the high altar (the church is oriented north-south). The introductory rite is, as far as I know, unique. The Asperges is part of the entrance procession and is followed by the older prayers, beginning 'Ostende nobis Domine ...', which are chanted facing the people. The ministers then ascend to the altar, venerate it and incense it while the choir sings the Introit. The Kyrie follows immediately.<br /><br />The first reading is done by a cleric in choir dress (usually the MC) and the epistle and gospel by the subdeacon and deacon. They are said in English, but on major feasts the gospel is sung in Latin. The interlectionary chants are from the Graduale Romanum.<br /><br />Credo III is sung alternatim by choir and congregation. There is no offertory procession or sign of peace. Communion is received in one kind, kneeling, and the vast majority receive on the tongue. The concluding rites are done at the altar, not from the sedilia.<br /><br />Nowadays the Roman Canon is invariably used; in the past EP III was occasionally heard (but in Latin, of course).<br /><br />ROTR? Not a bit of it. When the NO came in the fathers had to reconcile it with the Oratory's famed liturgical and musical traditions, and they succeeded admirably. One important principle was the retention of Latin for all solemn services, which makes (say) the Easter Vigil a sublime and uplifting experience.<br /><br />Perhaps Pope Francis is implying that the liturgical reform is not only irreversible, but also irreformable. <br /><br /> <br /><br /> <br /><br />John Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027156691859606002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-66480656999013122532017-08-24T19:07:30.782-04:002017-08-24T19:07:30.782-04:00It made me chuckle a bit when I read that Rorate s...It made me chuckle a bit when I read that Rorate said that this was like Quo Primum for the Novus Ordo . . .Joseph Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00036852763902493131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-176830952429114552017-08-24T15:33:04.574-04:002017-08-24T15:33:04.574-04:00Good question. First of all, I think this is the ...Good question. First of all, I think this is the most Pope Francis has ever said about the Roman liturgy. Second, I think Cardinal Sarah would agree that the 20th century reform was needed, and that the reforms do need to be internalized. I doubt, however, that Francis bothered to discuss any of this with Sarah. As for the liturgical books, even the ones issued after Trent were repeatedly updated in minor ways, so surely the Holy Father does not think the 2002 missal is definitive. Even if he does, he can hardly claim that a particular missal is divinely inspired. At any rate, SC does mandate both Latin and Gregorian Chant, so perhaps the process of internalization must include congregational openness to these elements. Rood Screenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09816036539243214384noreply@blogger.com