tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post3863003083432505704..comments2024-03-28T20:30:10.681-04:00Comments on southern orders: SAINT JOSEPH CHURCH PASTOR ISSUES NEW POLICY FOR EULOGIES DURING THE CHURCH'S FUNERAL LITURGIESFr. Allan J. McDonaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-30639001131368355752014-02-22T08:40:37.245-05:002014-02-22T08:40:37.245-05:00John Nolan said... "Order of Christian Funera...<b>John Nolan</b> said... <i>"Order of Christian Funerals?" Over my dead body! The order for my funeral (Placebo, Dirige and Requiem) is in the Liber Usualis, p.1763 et seq.</i><br /><br />Lucky you. Couldn't find anyone anywhere near here who'd be interested in using or possibly even know what to do with the <i>Liber Usualis</i>Gabbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13307116304179835358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-81237614031720384122014-02-21T17:46:16.744-05:002014-02-21T17:46:16.744-05:00"Order of Christian Funerals?" Over my d..."Order of Christian Funerals?" Over my dead body! The order for my funeral (Placebo, Dirige and Requiem) is in the Liber Usualis, p.1763 et seq.<br /><br />No eulogy, and on my tombstone a skull and bones in relief and the inscription:<br /><br />QVOD ES ERAM<br />QVOD SUM ERISJohn Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027156691859606002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-85728735206795458082014-02-21T17:00:06.614-05:002014-02-21T17:00:06.614-05:00That question has been answered repeatedly by my s...That question has been answered repeatedly by my son. Why have you ignored his numerous responses?Pater Ignotus' Momnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-41955462988515058192014-02-21T15:00:37.438-05:002014-02-21T15:00:37.438-05:00Oh and by the way it has not escaped me that your ...Oh and by the way it has not escaped me that your obsession with my authority over liturgies in my parish has led you to ignore the question I pose to you about "may" and "will"<br /><br />A stable group of parishioner may petition their pastor for the celebration of the EF Mass and the pastor will honor their request or ask the bishop to provide a priest to the parish who can.<br /><br />What is your response? I am waiting with great anticipation!Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-53570288264785642472014-02-21T14:57:25.952-05:002014-02-21T14:57:25.952-05:00You must need to see you eye doctor or read things...You must need to see you eye doctor or read things completely.<br />Family or friends may offer remembrances and eulogies at the Funeral Home during Visitation following the final blessing of the Vigil for the Deceased. I recommend to them not to reveal the deceased sins and certainly not to glorify these sins. These remembrances can go on all night and early into the morning and up until the funeral directors lead them to the church for the funeral mass and burial. Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-50548134590990688222014-02-21T14:52:21.100-05:002014-02-21T14:52:21.100-05:00So, Good Father, will you or won't you allow f...So, Good Father, will you or won't you allow family/friends to offer a reflection/eulogy during some part of the Funeral Rites of the Church as per Atlanta?<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-29779215686964727452014-02-21T06:15:11.935-05:002014-02-21T06:15:11.935-05:00Thank God! The business of family comments at fune...Thank God! The business of family comments at funerals is bad theology, bad pastoral care, and bad liturgy.Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-13030793219736831542014-02-21T04:59:17.570-05:002014-02-21T04:59:17.570-05:00The Diocese which my bishop of Savannah wrote me a...The Diocese which my bishop of Savannah wrote me about the quote I have above about Atlanta. He confirms my decision but acknowledges pastors have a right to permit what a lay person may request in terms of a reflection, lasting two minutes and written out and submitted prior to speaking it after the Funeral Mass or at the graveside. IT IS THE PASTOR'S DECISION! ANYONE FAMILIAR WITH CANON LAW AND RESPONSIBILITIES OF PASTORS ESPECIALLY REGARDING THE LITURGY SHOULD KNOW THIS.<br />Now, please answer for me, Is it a Pastor who may allow the EF for a stable group of parishioners who may request it or a pastor will allow the EF for a stable group that requests it--PI seems to ignore this one!Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-39188041719707508422014-02-20T21:25:55.893-05:002014-02-20T21:25:55.893-05:00Fr.McDonald, in which diocese do you serve?Fr.McDonald, in which diocese do you serve?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-85854480283652112232014-02-20T20:42:30.063-05:002014-02-20T20:42:30.063-05:00Henry, Mass is always about thanking and praising ...Henry, Mass is always about thanking and praising God. A Funeral Mass is also about praying for the soul of the deceased.Gabbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13307116304179835358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-62719450838382036902014-02-20T20:39:24.117-05:002014-02-20T20:39:24.117-05:00And Atlanta's policy:
[The] policy in Atlanta...And Atlanta's policy:<br /><br />[The] policy in Atlanta for those pastors who wish to include this practice in their own parish permits a 2 minute, pre-written and approved, reflection or words of gratitude at the conclusion of the funeral Mass.<br /><br />Now, who is it that allows this????Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-1900049770916694782014-02-20T20:31:48.522-05:002014-02-20T20:31:48.522-05:00My bishop and the Canadian bishop rightly disagree...My bishop and the Canadian bishop rightly disagree:<br /><br />Ottawa Catholics are no longer able to give eulogies for lost loved ones during funeral masses, after the Archbishop for the region issued a decree ending the practice this month.<br />Archbishop Terrence Prendergast issued the decree, effective as of Feb. 2, because he said eulogies take away from what the funeral mass should be about — praying for the deceased and their family, not praising them.<br />Archbishop Terrance Prendergast said priests in Ottawa have long allowed eulogies, but said the custom has gotten out of hand.<br />The decree states that eulogies or words of remembrance are not an official part of the Catholic funeral rites, and rightfully belong at a wake service or at a grave site.<br />“Technically the books that guide us don’t allow them, but they had crept in,” Prendergast told Hallie Cotnam on Ottawa Morning. Eulogies are “words of praise without reference to God” said Prendergast, while a mass “is an act of faith.”Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-47753473832141169832014-02-20T20:21:46.450-05:002014-02-20T20:21:46.450-05:00Henry - "Can" is not in the discussion. ...Henry - "Can" is not in the discussion. Bringing it up is a diversion.<br /><br />The Church, not the pastor, says that a family member or friend MAY offer a remembrance.<br /><br />Neither the Ritual nor the Diocesan policies say that the pastor "may" disregard the rubrics or the policy. Nor is this implied. "May" refers to the choice of the family member or friend, not the pastor.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-58327344637895125572014-02-20T19:17:35.139-05:002014-02-20T19:17:35.139-05:00"A member or a friend of the family may speak..."A member or a friend of the family may speak in remembrance of the deceased before the final commendation begins."<br /><br />Anonymous, this does not say that he can, only that he may. Do you really not know the difference between "may" and "can"? <br /><br />I wonder whether this kind of intellectual mediocrity could be behind much of the rampart disregard for both morality and common sense in the Church in recent decades?Henrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-52437491402912582282014-02-20T18:49:15.928-05:002014-02-20T18:49:15.928-05:00Archbishop Prendergast bears a striking resemblanc...Archbishop Prendergast bears a striking resemblance to Mikhail Gorbachev.John Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027156691859606002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-52685637037988450342014-02-20T18:40:10.471-05:002014-02-20T18:40:10.471-05:00The pastor is the one who makes allowances for the...The pastor is the one who makes allowances for the MAY both in the diocesan and liturgical books use ofMAY. If the laity are the decision makers in this regard, which they are not, good policy would state I a very clear nuanced way:<br /><br />A family member MAY offer a eulogy and the priest WILL accommodate this request. <br /><br />Of course no such wording exists. However with the EF Mass when a stable group requests it the pastor WILL provide it or the bishop WILL provide a priest.Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-53104960193609972282014-02-20T18:13:37.223-05:002014-02-20T18:13:37.223-05:00Not only is it the policy of the Diocese of Savann...Not only is it the policy of the Diocese of Savannah to allow a brief eulogy to be given, it is also the policy of the Church in the United States:<br /><br />170 in the Order of Christian Funerals: "Following the Prayer after communion, the priest goes to a place near the coffin. The assisting ministers carry the censer and holy water, if these are to be used. A member or a friend of the family may speak in remembrance of the deceased before the final commendation begins."<br /><br />In the case of the rubrics of the Order of Christian Funerals and in the case of the Savannah Diocesan policy, the "may" does not refer to the choice of the pastor, but to the choice of the family.<br /><br />It might be a pastor's choice to review/approve written comments, but it is not the pastor's prerogative to ignore the rubrics of the Ritual and the policy of the diocese.<br /><br />A diocesan policy is not merely a "suggestion" or an "allowance." It is a policy, not a suggestion, to allow a family member or friend to "speak in remembrance" of the deceased.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-75178527686535767122014-02-20T16:51:31.183-05:002014-02-20T16:51:31.183-05:00Parishioners who desire the EF mass are prevented ...Parishioners who desire the EF mass are prevented by all kinds of pastors and denied such. In this regard there is much more than a "May" involved and a direct papal mandate, so does a pastor have the right to exclude the precepts of SP entirely in his parish or not?Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-88019655297522676512014-02-20T16:44:23.102-05:002014-02-20T16:44:23.102-05:00"The policy of the diocese, approved and impl..."The policy of the diocese, approved and implemented by the Diocesan Bishop, MAY be annulled by a pastor?"<br /><br />Where is it written that a pastor may annul diocesan policies?<br /><br />But that's not what's involved here. As quoted, the diocesan policy says that a relative may give an eulogy. Like, for instance, when this is approved by the pastor, who--whether he approves or disapproves--is obeying diocesan policy to the letter.<br /><br />Really, I wonder what about the word "may" is too hard for Anonymous to understand. No rocket science here.Henrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-20964431957675712222014-02-20T16:31:52.519-05:002014-02-20T16:31:52.519-05:00The Diocese is making...setting forth the rule, an...The Diocese is making...setting forth the rule, and the diocesan rule is that "a family member or friend may share one brief eulogy". The Bishop is saying that they may do it. Nothing is said about "with approval of the pastor" or that the pastor may overrule the policy. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-70949505937220301832014-02-20T16:29:38.582-05:002014-02-20T16:29:38.582-05:00Pastors have canonical authority over the "ma...Pastors have canonical authority over the "mays" not the "wills," surely you know this? Pastors can approved policies for the parish and school that sometime overrides the "mays" of diocesan suggestions and allowances. There are many such cases, associated with the liturgy and pastoral councils and the like.Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-87336543033945295392014-02-20T16:03:13.708-05:002014-02-20T16:03:13.708-05:00The policy of the diocese, approved and implemente...The policy of the diocese, approved and implemented by the Diocesan Bishop, MAY be annulled by a pastor?<br /><br />One can imagine the ramifications...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-27546490556734403632014-02-20T16:00:04.488-05:002014-02-20T16:00:04.488-05:00Please note also the difference in a family member...Please note also the difference in a family member "MAY offer a eulogy" and when a bishop is present, but not the celebrant, he WILL offer the Final Commendation. Quite different, no? I can't forbid the bishop who will do this, but I may forbid the layperson from a eulogy. Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-22147441939394319082014-02-20T15:53:42.124-05:002014-02-20T15:53:42.124-05:00One of the reasons for the predicament of the Chur...One of the reasons for the predicament of the Church today is the reliance of pastors (at all levels) on lamentably minimalist rules and regulations that permit almost anything the pastor does not have the moral backbone to make a forthright decision on.Henrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-50745453059452677252014-02-20T15:36:13.882-05:002014-02-20T15:36:13.882-05:00The operative word here is "may" it is n...The operative word here is "may" it is not a right. A pastor may forbid it if he so desires, just as a pastor may decide that there isn't going to be Holy Communion under both kinds although it may be allowed. I hope this helps. Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.com