tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post316292974053204489..comments2024-03-28T18:02:12.286-04:00Comments on southern orders: ONLY A STRONG CATHOLIC IDENTITY NOT WATERED DOWN BY FALSE ECUMENISM OR LEFT WING SECULARISM OR DISOBEDIENCE TO THE MAGISTERIUM OF THE CHURCH BY RIGHT WING CATHOLICS OPPOSED TO VATICAN II CAN HELP THE CHURCH OF GOD FACE THE ANTI-CATHOLICISM OF THE OBAMA ADMIINISTRATION AND THE WORLD AS JOHN'S GOSPEL UNDERSTANDS THE TERM "WORLD"Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comBlogger45125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-39897845158868766012012-01-31T14:24:35.401-05:002012-01-31T14:24:35.401-05:00Pater, good post!
(My commendation of Pater for o...Pater, good post!<br /><br />(My commendation of Pater for one of his posts is assuredly a sign of the end times: So I don't think we're going to have time to reach our goal of justice for all peoples in this lifetime.)Marchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13510317669833026685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-61741047704627374322012-01-31T10:21:42.933-05:002012-01-31T10:21:42.933-05:00The Prayer is from a Red Book, which is neither li...The Prayer is from a Red Book, which is neither little nor Maoist. It is found in the Roman Missal and is the collect from the mass "For the Progress of Peoples."<br /><br />The prayer is a distillation of the principles which the Church teaches in this regard, principles found in a number of encyclicals and other authoritative magisterial documents.<br /><br />Our "one origin" - that we are made by God in God's image gives us an inherent dignity. That dignity is the basis for the Church's Social Doctrine, including our opposition to killing innocent humans.<br /><br />It is God's will that we recognize that our human family excludes no one - that all humans share equal dignity.<br /><br />We are to desire "the just advancement of our neighbors" as a means to improving the Common Good.<br />Advancing the Common Good is a fundamental teaching of the Church.<br /><br />The "good things richly bestowed upon all" speaks to the proper end of God's material creation. They are bestowed "upon all," not only upon a few.<br /><br />We aim to be perfected by grace. Our progress toward that end in this life is impeded by the divisions that cause strife within the human family.<br /><br />Equity and justice are the goals which the Church proclaims to be revealed by God, and we are encouraged to share in this part of the Church's mission.<br /><br />These are not "pie in the sky when you die" goals. As the Church prays, our expectation and hope is that they will be accomplished "in human society."<br /><br />It is a particularly rich prayer theologically, if a bit wordy. But it can be difficult to say a lot with just a few words.<br /><br />AmenPater Ignotusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-69993700497533892372012-01-31T07:09:42.049-05:002012-01-31T07:09:42.049-05:00Gee, what an unfortunate choice of names for a Mas...Gee, what an unfortunate choice of names for a Mass...How about "Power to the People Mass" or, if you like something more current and in the Vat II spirit, "The Votive Mass for Occupy Wall Street?"Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-88245126785671628732012-01-30T21:26:34.785-05:002012-01-30T21:26:34.785-05:00Pin, the 1948 Missal of the PRC.
j/k!!!
rcgPin, the 1948 Missal of the PRC.<br /><br />j/k!!!<br /><br />rcgAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-74555648635979101962012-01-30T20:09:13.162-05:002012-01-30T20:09:13.162-05:00The Votive Mass for the Progress of Peoples? Where...The Votive Mass for the Progress of Peoples? Where is that found, in Mao's Little Red Book?Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-83783778227639417812012-01-30T18:56:54.610-05:002012-01-30T18:56:54.610-05:00I cite a papal encyclical and Pater cites a collec...I cite a papal encyclical and Pater cites a collect for the Votive Mass for the Progress of Peoples. <br /><br />Anyway, you cited a Collect supporting the teaching on solidarity. surely the Church's principle of subsidiarity comes into play here as well. Can health care be handled at a lower level than the national government? <br /><br />Lex credendi...<br /><br /><br />MarcAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-63316390828884197602012-01-30T18:41:23.250-05:002012-01-30T18:41:23.250-05:00Pater, This Too:
Concede nobis, Domine Deus noste...Pater, This Too:<br /><br />Concede nobis, Domine Deus noster,<br />ut te tota mente veneremur,<br />et omnes homines *rationabili* diligamus affectu.<br /><br />rcgAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-31115397129333724232012-01-30T13:43:35.729-05:002012-01-30T13:43:35.729-05:00The Church calls it Social Justice, so I, for one,...The Church calls it Social Justice, so I, for one, will use that term.Pater Ignotusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-1007097401678769852012-01-30T11:06:58.551-05:002012-01-30T11:06:58.551-05:00Yes, most of what you say I discovered fairly earl...Yes, most of what you say I discovered fairly early-on as a Catholic maiden in the turbulent 70's; but, unfortunately, not before experiencing some serious sequelae from the early "social justice" mentality. <br />The hidden pitfalls of that mentality are huge.<br />Let's just call justice "justice". God IS just.Jennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06400691261382506978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-32211457210065768412012-01-30T10:01:29.541-05:002012-01-30T10:01:29.541-05:00What does the Church pray for regarding social jus...What does the Church pray for regarding social justice?<br /><br />"O God, who gave one origin to all peoples and willed to gather from them one family for yourself, fill all hearts, we pray, with the fire of your love and kindle in them a desire for the just advancement of their neighbor, that, through the good things which you richly bestow upon all, each human person may be brought to perfection, every division may be removed, and equity and justice may be established in human society. Through our Lord Jesus Christ,..."<br /><br />Lex orandi...Pater Ignotusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-92058646356959078192012-01-29T13:22:54.098-05:002012-01-29T13:22:54.098-05:00Marc, Indeed so. A very good post and comments. Le...Marc, Indeed so. A very good post and comments. Leftists do not believe in any "eternal bliss" for anyone, so their frantic hope is to create some truly mythical utopia on earth through mandated government "salvation." It is called "humanism."Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-66754171290432808302012-01-29T12:13:04.763-05:002012-01-29T12:13:04.763-05:00Pin, the Church has never been comfortable with so...Pin, the Church has never been comfortable with socialism or communism, just individual people (who were wrong) within the Church. Leo XIII has a great encyclical on socialism that everyone in today's America should read. To facilitate that, I will now quote it at length! (Note that we can ascertain the Church's traditional teaching on healthcare by careful study of the last portion I will quote below).<br /><br />From Quod Apostolici Muneris (1878):<br /><br />Their (the socialists') habit, as we have intimated, is always to maintain that nature has made all men equal, and that, therefore, neither honor nor respect is due to majesty, nor obedience to laws, unless, perhaps, to those sanctioned by their own good pleasure. But, on the contrary, in accordance with the teachings of the Gospel, the equality of men consists in this: that all, having inherited the same nature, are called to the same most high dignity of the sons of God, and that, as one and the same end is set before all, each one is to be judged by the same law and will receive punishment or reward according to his deserts. <b>The inequality of rights and of power proceeds from the very Author of nature</b>, "from whom all paternity in heaven and earth is named."<br /><br />... the Church, with much greater wisdom and good sense, recognizes the inequality among men, who are born with different powers of body and mind, inequality in actual possession, also, and holds that the right of property and of ownership, which springs from nature itself, must not be touched and stands inviolate. <br /><br />In fine, [the Church] does all she can to relieve and comfort the poor, either by holding up to them the example of Christ, "who being rich became poor for our sake, or by reminding them of his own words, wherein he pronounced the poor blessed and bade them hope for the reward of eternal bliss. But who does not see that this is the best method of arranging the old struggle between the rich and poor? For, as the very evidence of facts and events shows, if this method is rejected or disregarded, one of two things must occur: either the greater portion of the human race will fall back into the vile condition of slavery which so long prevailed among the pagan nations, or human society must continue to be disturbed by constant eruptions, to be disgraced by rapine and strife, as we have had sad witness even in recent times.<br /><br />MarcAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-90790944551806986222012-01-29T07:12:50.577-05:002012-01-29T07:12:50.577-05:00It is unfortunate that the term "social justi...It is unfortunate that the term "social justice" is used by both the Church and the secular Left, but with different (presumably) meanings and objectives. I will offer one caveat, and that is that the Church, being primarily European in history and world view, is a bit too comfortable with socialistic and Communistic political philosophies.<br />Now, in the US, social justice is almost a redundancy. I mean, talk about a straw man. The so-called "oppressed" in this country have rights and representation ad nauseam, and the much vaunted "poor" in this country have a standard of living that the poor of other countries envy. Our poor have wide screen tv's, video games, computers, cell phones, Ipods, and most have automobiles. Besides, if you are really poor and starving you do not have the energy to get out in the street and protest or form flash mobs and pillage Wal Mart.<br />No, "social justice," as used by the Left in this country is a code word for communist, ant-capitalist agenda. Destroy the wealthy by taking their money, eliminate middle class values with relativistic morality and egalitarian programs, control education and schools (propaganda factories), and discourage individualism exceptionalism (I am not talking about the euphemismn for retarded that is another lie of public education), and do it all in the name of helping the "poor" and minorities.<br />Presumably, this is not what the Church means by "social justice," but sometimes it is hard to tell...<br />What is wrong with just "justice?" That's for everybody...rich, poor, white, black, whoever..."social justice" is for a very special class of mythic "poor" who are being used as a foil for social-ism.Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-36219617315685953152012-01-28T21:37:05.426-05:002012-01-28T21:37:05.426-05:00I'm glad the Pope has an opinion on Universal ...I'm glad the Pope has an opinion on Universal Health Care, did he declare this opinion to be infallible dogma of the Church? No? Didn't think so. I've got an opinion on the subject too, just as good as the Pope's I dare say.<br /><br />While I have no disagreement with Catholic Charity, and the idea of Social Justice being part of the Church's mission, I do take exception to a SOCIALIST medical plan that requires some to get for free what others must pay for. Should every one have access to health care? Yes!! Should it be for free? Hell no!! Not from the government, and not paid for with tax revenues against people's will. Catholic Hospitals, supported by donations from Catholics, offering free medical care is a GREAT example of Catholic Charity and the Church fulfilling it's mission. The Government STEALING from people against their will and redistributing that money, in cash or services, is socialism pure and simple.Templarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18204866760862707908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-62352635047680847992012-01-28T17:44:35.344-05:002012-01-28T17:44:35.344-05:00Pacem in Terris
48. Hence, a regime which governs...<i>Pacem in Terris</i><br /><br />48. Hence, a regime which governs solely or mainly by means of threats and intimidation or promises of reward, provides men with no effective incentive to work for the common good. And even if it did, it would certainly be offensive to the dignity of free and rational human beings. Authority is before all else a moral force. For this reason the appeal of rulers should be to the individual conscience, to the duty which every man has of voluntarily contributing to the common good. But since all men are equal in natural dignity, no man has the capacity to force internal compliance on another. Only God can do that, for He alone scrutinizes and judges the secret counsels of the heart.<br /><br />49. Hence, representatives of the State have no power to bind men in conscience, unless their own authority is tied to God's authority, and is a participation in it.<br /><br />51. Governmental authority, therefore, is a postulate of the moral order and derives from God. Consequently, <b>laws and decrees passed in contravention of the moral order, and hence of the divine will, can have no binding force in conscience, since "it is right to obey God rather than men ".</b>Bl. John XIIInoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-15251270902933080162012-01-28T16:50:40.717-05:002012-01-28T16:50:40.717-05:00Why this tilting at windmills? With repetitive quo...Why this tilting at windmills? With repetitive quotations that absolutely no one here disagrees with. So far as I can see, no one here has expressed any disagreement with any of the Church's social teaching. Though perhaps some may think it obvious that some current governmental policies are threat not only to the Church's social agenda, but to Church and Faith themselves in this country.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-15492599633526850832012-01-28T16:25:23.986-05:002012-01-28T16:25:23.986-05:00Snipe - The Social Justice agenda is the Church...Snipe - The Social Justice agenda is the Church's agenda.<br /><br />The Church "teaches the demands of justice and peace in conformity with divine wisdom." (Catechism of the Catholic Church, no 2419)<br /><br />Nothing that concerns the community of men and women - situations and problems regarding justice, freedom, development, relations between people, peace - is foreign to evangelization, and evangelization would be incomplete if it did not take into account the mutual demands continually made by the Gospel and by the concrete, personal and social life of man. - Pope Paul VI, Evangelii Nuntiandi, no 25<br /><br />With her social doctrine, the Church aims "at helping man on the path of salvation." - Pope John Paul II, Centesimus Annus, no 54.<br /><br />The Social Justice agenda is the Church's agenda.<br /><br />That the Gospel, of which the Church's own teaching on Social Justice is an integral part, should be divisive is nothing new. <br /><br />The argument against the Church's teaching on Social Justice is not with me, but with, it seems, the Church itself.Pater Ignotusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-90083020857994910152012-01-28T14:41:25.690-05:002012-01-28T14:41:25.690-05:00A may have deleted by accident from my iPhone some...A may have deleted by accident from my iPhone someone's comment, so if you miss it, send it again--can't find it on my iPhone.Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-52960023510639332112012-01-28T14:32:31.791-05:002012-01-28T14:32:31.791-05:00Pater Ignotus,
Abortion and contaception is not h...Pater Ignotus,<br /><br />Abortion and contaception is not health care, it is execution. The Didache says in The Way of Life number 2, "Practise no magic, sorcery, abortion, or infanticide."<br /><br />This Church document is from 80-90 AD. It is clear that the Chuch has been against abortion and contraception from the very beginning. We are not going to let anyone force us to pay for something that we have stood against for 2,000 years!Carol H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02475843499648488542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-62684022132586916432012-01-28T14:09:28.626-05:002012-01-28T14:09:28.626-05:00Henry: By way of explanation, the only part I am ...Henry: By way of explanation, the only part I am in disagreement with Father on is that the right wing of the Church contributes to any disunity if it disagrees with the Pope. Father is an Ultramontanist but I am not. The Popes make too many contradictory statements for me to pledge to hang on their every word as if it directly from God. <br /><br />Every subject's service is the King's, but every subject's soul is his own, for we purpose not our souls when we purpose our service. Meaning, obedience will not wipe from us the sin of following unlawful orders. We must use conscience and free will in all things, even in matters of obedience, otherwise the obedience is meaningless.Templarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18204866760862707908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-36094368418742558202012-01-28T14:02:03.331-05:002012-01-28T14:02:03.331-05:00Thanks, Carole and Henry!
That was very difficult ...Thanks, Carole and Henry!<br />That was very difficult to write, but cathartic--took two hours and a couple of tears shed..<br />Pater, I'm sure, is much beloved by God and most certainly by His Mother.<br />He just doesn't understand the dangers and pitfalls of the social justice agendas so prevalent in days gone by--agendas that tend to be ironically promulgated by the self-absorbed in the name of "others". I KNOW because I fell into the trap myself in my youth listening to social gospel priests and squandered some precious time (I nearly became a Maryknoll Mission nun, enough said!). Believe me, my heart still lives with the poor and disenfrancised. But I have lived long enough to know that God is much bigger than any one social agenda, or even any one liturgical preference (I too prefer the EF, but it is not available in our deanery and we have given up the struggle with obstinate priests, Pater included!). <br /><br />Nor does Pater understand the wrong-headed enabling he fosters that can be SO very divisive in our beloved Church particularly strong right now. We have witnessed this locally--it is heart-breaking and, for some parishioners, faith-shattering. <br />It is way past time to heal the divisions and TOGETHER face real evil head-on...<br /><br />And, Pater, with respect, the proper noun for "snipping" is "Snip", not "Snipe"...<br />Just sayin'Jennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06400691261382506978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-91161091718075265152012-01-28T13:52:24.181-05:002012-01-28T13:52:24.181-05:00Just came from a Pre-Lenten parish mission in our ...Just came from a Pre-Lenten parish mission in our TLM parish. The homily was simple: Truth. The engaging young priest simply said that he served the Truth. No equivocation, no apologies, no comparisons. Just simple, 'the Truth". There was a lot of other interesting and inspiring things in his talk, but I actually felt as if a weight was lifted to hear this.<br /><br />Pa-Ig, If one concedes that there are multiple ways to celebrate Mass within the Universal Church, then surely there must be multiple ways to provide universal health care within the Church's goal. In fact, the secular goal should have as many different methods of serving that goal as possible to avoid a single point of failure, which, by the way, is exactly what we have here. Socialism is so much more than taking property, it takes the human spirit by assuming choices and thereby robbing us of the single unique feature of humanity. <br /><br />rcgAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-22531313983011650872012-01-28T13:35:17.501-05:002012-01-28T13:35:17.501-05:00Allowed themselves to be duped?
Hardly. These tw...Allowed themselves to be duped?<br /><br />Hardly. These two characters knew perfectly well the type of scoundrel that Obama was and is. To imply that they were duped strains credulity.Dannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-2554732088247464652012-01-28T13:31:30.424-05:002012-01-28T13:31:30.424-05:00Pater Ignotus gave quotes to support his statement...Pater Ignotus gave quotes to support his statement that the Church states access to health care is an inalienable right.<br />Well, if the Church says so, then I'll be obedient and trust her and go along with that statement.<br /><br />However, our government is not using the Church's teaching or principles to guide it in how to properly create such a system.<br />The US government may agree with the Church on the fact that universal access to health care for all is an unalienable right, but it certainly differs on the means to bring it about.<br />The government is using socialist tactics to bring to fuition an idea that is not in itself a socialist idea.<br />Swelching the rights of others in order to bring about 'universal health care' is not the Church's way.<br />The Church also taught me that the end does not justify the means.<br /><br />The recent HHS requirement is only a very recent and public expample and one that finally hits the Church, so the Church is fighting back.<br />Yet, it has been going on for quite sometime with regards to requirements of medical professionals, supporting medical insurance companies that take away patient's free choice and the doctor's ability run his own business.<br />Don't get me started here!..this is a hot topic for me that I happen to know a thing or two about. But this is not my blog.<br /><br />Suffice it say, I am glad the Bishops are rolling up their sleeves and donning their boxing gloves on this HHS mandate and I'll do what I can to support them.<br /><br />Note to Pater Ignotus, once you previously mentioned that you have an affinity for care of the poor and pwerless. That is a noble sentiment and we all need to cultivate it more! Just one reqest: in your personal interactions perhaps you can see that the poor and powerless actually come in a forms and ecoomic strata. I know you were actually referring to the financially poor people, yet helping them should not render the others financially poor nor take away anything from them. There is plenty to go aruond, and then some! No need to support Robin Hood tactics (I don't know that YOU do).<br />If we take away free choice or the ability to increase one's own talents...that's like socialism and/or communism.<br /><br />~SqueekerLambAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-31194259146689877202012-01-28T13:18:30.922-05:002012-01-28T13:18:30.922-05:00There's a great 2009 book by Russell Shaw enti...There's a great 2009 book by Russell Shaw entitled "Nothing to Hide", published by Ignatius Press. It addresses the problem of clerical secrecy in the Church, secrecy which prevents constructive criticism by the laity of hierarchical decisions. <br />Like Henry, I, too, see little evidence of an equal and opposite counterpart to the "watered-down Catholicism" crowd, certainly not in terms of proportion. <br />But the post-Vatican II use of secrecy in preparing liturgical reforms has so badly damaged the good proposals of the Council that it is hard to see a way to implement them now. The Council assumed a well-formed laity and a well-established liturgy, neither one of which we have today outside the traditional Mass crowd.<br />I would go so far to argue that it will only be once the traditionally minded Catholics of the Latin Rite are in the majority, or a significant minority, in the Latin Church, that it will be possible to try applying Vatican II again. But this time, without secrecy.Rood Screenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09816036539243214384noreply@blogger.com