tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post3155864877244748642..comments2024-03-28T11:36:20.629-04:00Comments on southern orders: ANOTHER RURAL SOUTHERN PARISH WITH A PROTESTANT, CONGREGATIONALIST MENTALITY--NOT THEIR FAULT BUT THEIR FORMER PASTORS' DOING!Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-73472788487211758132015-12-17T20:28:54.160-05:002015-12-17T20:28:54.160-05:00Fr Kavanaugh
'The purpose of the vessel clean...Fr Kavanaugh<br /><br />'The purpose of the vessel cleaning regulation is to ensure that the work is done properly' How purely utilitarian you make it sound. 'Supper's over, time to wash up'. You are forgetting the ritual significance of the Ablutions - in the classic Roman Rite there are two prayers to accompany it, the Quod ore sumpsimus and the Corpus tuum, Domine. The first of these prayers was actually reinserted into the Novus Ordo in the early 1970s.<br /><br />You may think something is 'unnecessary' but in this case your opinion counts for nothing.John Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027156691859606002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-74592005794922316022015-12-16T07:33:34.272-05:002015-12-16T07:33:34.272-05:00The purpose of the vessel cleaning regulation is t...The purpose of the vessel cleaning regulation is to ensure that the work is done properly. A trained lay man or woman - a sacristan, and instituted acolyte, burly or slight - could do the job properly. It is unnecessary to restrict this task to the ordained or the "instituted." Fr. Michael J. Kavanaughnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-91149408427330042532015-12-15T09:11:45.443-05:002015-12-15T09:11:45.443-05:00It is also worth nothing that the state of North C...It is also worth nothing that the state of North Carolina has had a lot of Catholic growth especially in the last 20-25 years. I think at one time (maybe around 1960) it was the least Catholic state (in percentage) in the country---perhaps even less than heavily Mormon Utah! But I suspect a lot of that growth is coming from "up North"---what we might charitably call "Blueland" (the 11-state Northeast region from Maryland to Maine). And "up North" Catholics (that is, Catholics from the Northeast) aren't exactly known for their religious conservatism. That may be reflected in how close North Carolina (which has about the same population as Georgia) is politically---Obama carried it narrowly in 2008 and only lost it by 2 points in 2012 (in contrast, he lost Georgia both times, 8-points the last time). The North Carolina of archconservative Jesse Helms is fading by the day. So a lot of the Catholic growth in that state may be coming at a price---the price of "I want it may way" liturgy from the masses.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-43939778299060523902015-12-15T06:55:37.984-05:002015-12-15T06:55:37.984-05:00Thank you, John, I thought that was the case. I wi...Thank you, John, I thought that was the case. I will have a closer look and see if the priest does get a chance to purify the chalice. If he doesn't then I plan to take it up with the bishop and see if he will do anything about it. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-81859064300333493602015-12-15T04:00:06.770-05:002015-12-15T04:00:06.770-05:00I don't know the real story, of course. But I...I don't know the real story, of course. But I've been part of many "vibrant" parishes over the years where "popular hymns" were sung instead of Gregorian chant. I never liked it but just slogged on.<br /><br />When you make sudden changes, people will get upset and some will leave. Trouble is, most of the people who'd leave because of the switch to Novus Ordo have already left, and did so long ago. Now we're at risk of driving away the NO crowd too...<br /><br />It's important that pastors be sensitive--add things rather than replacing them. Talk to people, and listen as well. It's just too bad that so much of a parish's flavour derives from the individual priest, but that's the way things are in the NO world. <br /><br />I do think it's important to keep laity involved in the finances. Most priests, unless they have delayed vocations, have never had real financial responsibility, like paying a mortgage or looking after a family. They need help and guidance. And frankly, now and then you get a crooked priest (it happens), so there needs to be oversight. And mostly it's the laity footing the bill anyway.Tony Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10862727279147129707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-2841868508072153742015-12-14T21:37:31.311-05:002015-12-14T21:37:31.311-05:00The true teachings of Sacrosanctum Concilium deman...The true teachings of Sacrosanctum Concilium demand that Latin be preserved in the Mass, the pastor miust ensure that the congregation learns to chant the Ordinary in Latin, Gregorian chant and the organ have pride of place,which probably means 90 percent of American parishes are NOT following the Conciliar decrees on the liturgy.TJMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-61264069622839372222015-12-14T17:30:23.309-05:002015-12-14T17:30:23.309-05:00I respectfully disagree with your evaluation of th...I respectfully disagree with your evaluation of the pastor's actions. People who have abandoned catholic teachings will be aggressive, sue and fight this year, next year, 5 years from now or 10 years from now. They must be taught, yes, but once the true teachings of the Second Vatican Council have been imparted the pastor must lead them to be in alignment with Sacrosanctum Concilium. Heitor Caballerohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07819495990025666309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-85967749589575206262015-12-14T17:20:44.588-05:002015-12-14T17:20:44.588-05:00Mr. JBS - It may be unanswered, but it is not unan...Mr. JBS - It may be unanswered, but it is not unanswerable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-27992778565694114732015-12-14T16:52:51.108-05:002015-12-14T16:52:51.108-05:00I have been to some churches in that diocese---one...I have been to some churches in that diocese---one near Grandfather Mountain (near Boone, NC), St. Bernadettes, years ago did a renovation that removed some of the open window view of the mountain (narrowed it) and installed a large marble altar which seemed out of place for a rustic mountain setting. I think they use incense at every Mass---certainly permitted, but I guess I'm one of those who feels incense is more appropriate for the major feast days like Christmas, Easter and Pentecost. And I have never seen communion distributed there in both species (our parish in Atlanta almost always does provide such offering, at least on Sundays and Holy Days, maybe not weekday Masses). In any event, Charlotte (diocese) is probably more conservative than Atlanta's.<br /><br />On parishes becoming under "Protestant" governing influence, well perhaps we are at the day where the laity are footing the bill for many projects---new sanctuaries, parish halls, schools and so on---and rightly or wrongly feel they should have some say in the matter. Not with liturgy per se (which properly is the clergy's role), but with business practices. Questions like how much "is too much" when it comes to money leaving the parish for the diocesan offices? Here in the Atlanta Diocese, we have an annual appeal from the bishop where every parish has a "goal" (like 8% of annual offertory income to fund programs beyond the parish (at diocesan level), but if the "goal" is not met, the bishop gets the money anyway as we are warned every week this time of year as the deadline approaches. I guess there is no limit as to how much money a bishop can demand of a parish---and that could create resentment.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-23174791273270290672015-12-14T15:41:52.277-05:002015-12-14T15:41:52.277-05:00Anonymous,
The parents of the priest in question ...Anonymous,<br /><br />The parents of the priest in question live nearby his church. His father is a deacon there. But unless the priest or his bishop follows this blog (shame on them if they do not!), your question is unanswerable. Rood Screenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09816036539243214384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-23419532315184419002015-12-14T10:31:46.396-05:002015-12-14T10:31:46.396-05:00I see they offer the Extraordinary Form of Mass on...I see they offer the Extraordinary Form of Mass on Wednesday nights. That's probably what pushed these "tolerant" libs over the edge. Wow. It looks like a very Catholic parish and the pastor does not look like a limp-wristed pushover!!! TJMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15295786341022051107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-40539111258434177902015-12-14T10:04:47.007-05:002015-12-14T10:04:47.007-05:00Mr. JBS - The question I pose is not "unanswe...Mr. JBS - The question I pose is not "unanswerable." A priest who moves from one diocese to another must present good reasons to both his bishop of origin and the bishop of the diocese to which he wishes to move.<br /><br />Is he, in fact, incardinated in the Diocese of Charlotte? I don't think it is at all "common" for priests to leave their home diocese and move to another. Of course, it happens, but it seems to me that such moves are very rare indeed.<br /><br />That you bring up the notion of "casting doubt" seems to reveal that you, too, know that such transfers are often the result of, shall we say, "difficulties" in one location. I am not suggesting such, but now that you have raised it...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-51307355275607057022015-12-14T09:45:57.176-05:002015-12-14T09:45:57.176-05:00The loons that left the parish for Protestant cong...The loons that left the parish for Protestant congregations actually makes the Bishop's decision much easier. Goodbye to fake "catholics" for whom it was "all about them.: TJMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15295786341022051107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-51175243156260254782015-12-14T08:59:30.057-05:002015-12-14T08:59:30.057-05:00I think rural small parishes where there is an ext...I think rural small parishes where there is an extremely small town mentality and inbreeding contributes to the problem as does mountain people culture!Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-10976206207985138992015-12-14T08:52:18.568-05:002015-12-14T08:52:18.568-05:00Anonymous,
Concerning liturgical considerations, ...Anonymous,<br /><br />Concerning liturgical considerations, it could be that he told them the parish would do things according to the books, rather than according to private inclination (his own or others'). Do you have reason to believe he told them he wanted things done according to his own, arbitrary preferences? <br /><br />Concerning serving in a different diocese, canon law permits this for various reasons, and it is common for a diocese to have in it priests incardinated in other dioceses. In itself, such an arrangement does not seem like adequate reason to cast doubt upon a priest, which presumably, is what you intend by posing the unanswerable question more than once. Rood Screenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09816036539243214384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-60825162043193899622015-12-14T07:43:00.325-05:002015-12-14T07:43:00.325-05:00Thorny - How do you know his methods were NOT ques...Thorny - How do you know his methods were NOT questionable? Or are you inclined to think this way because you are on this extern priest's side?<br /><br />Change does not, "by definition," have to be confrontational. Confrontation arises when one individual with "power" shows up and says, "We're going to do it MY way, not YOUR way, from here on out." <br /><br />I still wonder why this priest is not ministering in the diocese for which he was ordained?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-21570166620750755892015-12-14T04:28:12.622-05:002015-12-14T04:28:12.622-05:00Jan, the only people who may purify the sacred ves...Jan, the only people who may purify the sacred vessels are a priest, deacon or instituted acolyte. The US bishops had an indult allowing EMHC to do this, but this was rescinded a decade ago.John Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027156691859606002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-91718491782881026312015-12-13T21:20:26.037-05:002015-12-13T21:20:26.037-05:00How do you know his methods are questionable? Bec...How do you know his methods are questionable? Because the complainers said so? If you want to create change make sure you create no waves, people might complain. Yes, I think our Lord did that, he made sure not to make any waves or change things. The Pharisees may complain. <br />By definition Change means confronting what was. There is no way to create change without confronting the old way of business. How do we know that the Pastor did not address his concerns with love and back it all up with scripture and the councils? His moves may have come after being stonewalled by the laity and refusal on their part. He may have moved too quick, certainly possible. But good Fr. McDonald just because a group who begins the whisper campaign don't like it when things don't go their way (you are taking away their power-which they should not have been given) let's not indict the Priest who by the looks of it is trying to create change for the better. Thornton Mellonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-72180909838623250442015-12-13T20:11:59.989-05:002015-12-13T20:11:59.989-05:00In June this year the Bishop of Portsmouth, Philip...In June this year the Bishop of Portsmouth, Philip Egan, entrusted a parish church (St Mary's, Gosport) to the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate. 'The Tablet' (our equivalent of the NCR) carried a story about how parishioners had been driven away by the restoration of what they considered to be 'pre-Vatican II' practices. This included making people kneel for Communion (untrue). It was reported that the EF Mass was celebrated six days a week (true, but early in the morning and in addition to the OF Mass schedule). There were comments by two aggrieved women, one describing herself as catechist and music-leader. No contrary opinion was sought. <br /><br />In fact, Mass attendance, which had been in decline for twenty years, has increased. Comments from parishioners in the local paper were mostly positive, drawing attention to the increased reverence shown in celebrating the OF Mass and the quality of the preaching. Dr Egan is used to getting flak from the Bitter Pill and the friars are not going to be intimidated. On the Feast of the Immaculate Conception they celebrated their first Old Rite Solemn Mass in the Church, and Christmas Midnight Mass will also be in this form.<br /><br />I know a priest locally who faces 'east' for the Liturgy of the Eucharist in the OF. He explained beforehand to his parishioners why he was doing it, and received only one complaint - from a visiting priest. John Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027156691859606002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-2055421041170920142015-12-13T17:06:54.867-05:002015-12-13T17:06:54.867-05:00Well, the parishioners are wasting their time peti...Well, the parishioners are wasting their time petitioning Rome because Pope Francis has announced he plans to devolve authority to bishops and so, just as this may cause problems with liberal bishops having authority to do as they like there is the converse where bishops will be entitled, therefore, to restore the Church in their diocese and so help to preserve the Church through an increase of vocations to the priesthood, something that isn't going to happen in those diocese that don't make any attempt to restore the Church.<br /><br />I was at Mass last evening offered by a visiting priest from Uganda. Imagine his surprise when a burly woman Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion walked up to him as he was performing the ablutions of the chalice obviously remonstrating that it was her job and practically dragged the chalice off him. Lord preserve us from lay people gone rogue. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-34940369156046911392015-12-13T16:54:16.155-05:002015-12-13T16:54:16.155-05:00 Those strict, rigid and mean mean mean YOUNG Trad... Those strict, rigid and mean mean mean YOUNG Traditional priests who teach the Roman Catholic Faith and offer the TLM just scare me to no end!!! Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-17535127731175958972015-12-13T14:22:43.434-05:002015-12-13T14:22:43.434-05:00MIchael A:
You nailed it. There is nothing worse...MIchael A:<br /><br />You nailed it. There is nothing worse. At least in THIS part of America.Robert Kumpelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10567786012498143419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-37883644729091411542015-12-13T14:07:22.483-05:002015-12-13T14:07:22.483-05:00Another aspect of liberal rigidity in a priest is ...Another aspect of liberal rigidity in a priest is making Vatican II into an idol. It is a fundamentalism applied to the documents of Vatican II as well as its so-called spirit. God forbid that one stray from that path and do restorative theology. I know many liberal priests, nuns and laity who are Vatican II fundamentalist of the rupture ilk. Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-58620226997385441792015-12-13T13:19:21.575-05:002015-12-13T13:19:21.575-05:00One of the problems is that there is nothing worse...One of the problems is that there is nothing worse than a liberal hillbilly. Ones who think they are going to be cosmopolitan by playing corny music at Mass so they can prove to themselves that they are not tasteless farmers. I grew up in a small parish in Indiana and what I noticed is that the most ardent promoters of garbage liturgy are the hayseed farmers who want to show they are "with-it". They never were whit-it and never will be. Is it possible that this priest doesn't want to give Communion to some people because they haven't gone to Confession for years but family members think that having their stubborn grandma get Communion without Confession is grandma's business? This part of the story doesn't add up. A decent priest understands that offering the Sacraments to the sick is one of his primary duties, not the parish picnic committee. In this case they accuse a "conservative " priest of dragging his feet to deliver the Sacraments. This simply doesn't pass the smell test. Something is being left out. I suppose it's possible that this priest suffers from a lack of diplomacy, but I think I would sitting in my pew with a big smile on my face. I for sure would not be found in a Protestant Church because I can't stand a hippy priest. This too tells me something about the supposed victims being described in the story. This priest had better watch out, because Pope Francis ain't gonna like what he hears. Just like Obama, when Francis discovers a no good radical oppressing people he'll spring into action.Michael Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15618353392014421685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-25202881033377248542015-12-13T12:46:06.614-05:002015-12-13T12:46:06.614-05:00Thank you for the compliments Father. Much appreci...Thank you for the compliments Father. Much appreciated. <br /><br />Servimus Unum Deumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12521042317656015840noreply@blogger.com