tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post2372265191996802874..comments2024-03-28T20:30:10.681-04:00Comments on southern orders: THE LOSS OF PRIESTLY IDENTITY AND ITS REDISCOVERY ROOTED IN CATHOLICISM NOT PROTESTANTISMFr. Allan J. McDonaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-69399858541598088262016-06-29T17:35:58.058-04:002016-06-29T17:35:58.058-04:00John - I have no difficulty with indoctrination. ...John - I have no difficulty with indoctrination. And I agree that "acceptance without questioning" is an absolute scourge. I fear that, at this point, many have lost the ability to question, to know how to ask essential questions, and, therefore, how to judge critically the answers they may receive.<br /><br />I recall hearing a rabbi, I think, say once that when he greeted his children after a day at school, he did not ask, "What did you learn today?" but, "What questions did you ask today?" <br /><br />I have gently proposed this tactic to my nieces and nephews who have children of their own now. I don't know if the suggestion was taken up, but I hope .Fr. Michael J. Kavanaughnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-6500524276582943952016-06-29T14:16:03.002-04:002016-06-29T14:16:03.002-04:00Thanks for the endorsements. I particularly value ...Thanks for the endorsements. I particularly value that from Fr Kavanaugh since we disagree on a number of details yet surely agree on the essentials. The point about education is that it is not about polemics (which can be great fun in forums like this but will not win young minds - they have an innate curiosity and a sense of fairness and justice).<br /><br />RE at secondary level is also about comparative religion and ethics. We do indoctrinate (that is our purpose) but not in the negative sense in which the term is used nowadays. I was always taught to question, and one of the most depressing things about modern society is that it has embraced assumptions which people accept without questioning, either out of intellectual laziness or ingrained prejudice.<br /><br />'There is more faith in honest doubt, believe me, than in half the creeds.' <br /><br />John Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027156691859606002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-18141641640352015672016-06-29T07:51:45.971-04:002016-06-29T07:51:45.971-04:00The weeds are the children of the evil one, and th...The weeds are the children of the evil one, and the enemy who sows them is the devil. Rood Screenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09816036539243214384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-59303349177827528412016-06-29T06:27:26.217-04:002016-06-29T06:27:26.217-04:00Excellent, John. Wish you were here to teach my ki...Excellent, John. Wish you were here to teach my kids and grandkids. We could also hit the old MacCallan.Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-78821243901784881422016-06-29T00:28:59.019-04:002016-06-29T00:28:59.019-04:00As Fr. K says...
God be with you, John.As Fr. K says...<br />God be with you, John.Jennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06400691261382506978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-17913901495195913812016-06-28T19:01:44.417-04:002016-06-28T19:01:44.417-04:00John, that would be wonderful. You would get many...John, that would be wonderful. You would get many young minds on a watch list. Heck, I would go.rcghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00661998350597126663noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-2784836412352462532016-06-28T17:27:14.402-04:002016-06-28T17:27:14.402-04:00John, I suspect you would be a superb rel ed teach...John, I suspect you would be a superb rel ed teacher. I hope this can work for you.Fr. Michael J. Kavanaughnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-67584410128715926362016-06-28T13:52:38.041-04:002016-06-28T13:52:38.041-04:00"To my mind there are not two different kinds..."To my mind there are not two different kinds of priestly spirituality, there is only one: that of his Mass, that of the Sacrifice of Our Lord, because the priest is essentially the man of sacrifice. I would say there is a transcendental relation between the priest and the sacrifice, and between the sacrifice and the priest. One cannot imagine sacrifice without a priest, and the priesthood without sacrifice. And so there is a relation there that is more than essential, transcendental really, a relation that goes beyond even the essence of the priest. So, we must go back to the idea of the Sacrifice. One can say that our sacrifice, the sacrifice which Our Lord has put into our hands, the sacrifice which Our Lord has left us, is a thing without limit, inexpressible, so divine and mysterious is it, that it surpasses everything we can imagine.<br /><br />To think that we are really 'other Christs,' and that it is His words, His words that produce His presence, that we recite these words each morning, that it is not simply a narrative but also an action, and that we say, 'This is My Body,' we do not say, 'This is the Body of Jesus Christ.' But we say, 'This is My Body,' 'This is the chalice of My Blood' it is we ourselves who pronounce it! Consequently we are truly in the Person of Christ, it is truly Christ that we represent. It is no longer we who speak; it is Our Lord Who makes use of our lips, Who makes use of us to pronounce these words anew. There it is, I truly believe, the great program of the priest, the program of priestly life: his Mass. That is why the Mass is so important. And this program, it is not really complicated, it is very simple."<br /><br />- Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, 1984<br /><br />Thank God for the SSPX.Marchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13510317669833026685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-67982157016950493592016-06-28T13:38:52.586-04:002016-06-28T13:38:52.586-04:00Actually, Gobshite, those of us of a traditionalis...Actually, Gobshite, those of us of a traditionalist bent do not regard 'liberals' as evil, simply as being misguided and often ignorant. We don't arrogate our opinions over everyone else's, since they are not opinions, based as they are on what the Church teaches.<br /><br />I have been asked to come out of (semi) retirement to teach religious education at a large local Catholic High School. I am minded to accept, not least because I think that Catholic education has gone off the rails and I can rectify this, at least to a small extent.<br /><br />My priority will be to establish a schola cantorum to sing chant in both Latin and English. Watch this space.John Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027156691859606002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-74663739987012744722016-06-28T13:27:59.712-04:002016-06-28T13:27:59.712-04:00gob, were you a Council Father or a peritus? Then ...gob, were you a Council Father or a peritus? Then you had nothing to do with the destruction.TJMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-68804080588235092472016-06-28T13:23:49.130-04:002016-06-28T13:23:49.130-04:00Hey, Gob, nobody wishes you or any other lib would...Hey, Gob, nobody wishes you or any other lib would die...we are just making party plans for when you all do. Oh, and peace on you, too.Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-59152682184975045542016-06-28T12:53:25.691-04:002016-06-28T12:53:25.691-04:00TJM....I am a liberal. I am not evil. I am not d...TJM....I am a liberal. I am not evil. I am not determined to destroy the One, Holy, Roman, Catholic Church. In spite of the fact that you wish I would die, I wish that you live long and prosper. Peace be with you. Father McDonald's new church has a Facebook page. Somebody (not I) should post an invitation to the parishioners to sign on the "Southern Orders" blog...get a good insight into the new pastor and his friends... gobnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-81473182701422215262016-06-28T12:35:06.633-04:002016-06-28T12:35:06.633-04:00"......the documents of the Second Vatican Co..."......the documents of the Second Vatican Council actually sought to strengthen priestly identity"<br />Not really. The documents are full of "tensions" as Ratzinger said, or better, as we used to say, "contradictions". For instance, in the liturgical document, you have on the one hand the Liturgical Movement applying their heretical idea of active participation in terms of a knowledgeable universal priesthood, while at the same time specifying that Latin is to be retained. If one does not understand Latin, that would conflict with active participation as salvation through knowledge. <br />The main problem in this mess was Paul VI who should have had better sense and have independent experts go over the documents before mechanically signing them. Victor Wnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-2941112968946023402016-06-28T09:51:10.158-04:002016-06-28T09:51:10.158-04:00Evil liberals determined to destroy the One, Holy,...Evil liberals determined to destroy the One, Holy, Roman, Catholic Church. Thank God most are gone or doing to their "reward."TJMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-79960446542164676242016-06-28T09:40:11.869-04:002016-06-28T09:40:11.869-04:00"Cardinal Mueller's excellent analysis of..."Cardinal Mueller's excellent analysis of what has happened to priestly identity since the Second Vatican Council makes me wonder how this happened when the documents of the Second Vatican Council actually sought to strengthen priestly identity."<br /><br />In the decade following Vatican II, the actual documents of the Council were paid even less attention than now.<br /><br />The post-conciliar revolution in the Church took as its license and pretext the fact that Vatican II had occurred and (it was claimed) had thrown everything up for grabs. However the actually recommendations of the Council and the discernible intentions of the (conservative) majority of council Fathers were blocked, sidetracked, and subverted rather than followed and implemented.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-27860534298425512742016-06-28T09:37:47.840-04:002016-06-28T09:37:47.840-04:00"The sacramental priesthood, entirely centere..."The sacramental priesthood, entirely centered on the Eucharistic sacrifice - as had been affirmed at the Council of Trent - . . ."<br /><br />"Entirely" gives me pause. While my ministry as a priest is rooted in the celebration of the sacraments, and among them, in first place, the mass, I'm not sure how Card Muller (or his translator) means "entirely" in this regard. <br /><br />"In this regard, one can understand completely why the SSPX reject the Council's theology (not doctrine, and certainly not dogma) on ecumenism, religious freedom and interfaith dialogue and dialogue with the world."<br /><br />I think the rejection by SSPX and others of the teaching of the Church regarding ecumenism, religious freedom, interfaith dialogue, and dialogue with the world is far beyond a matter of merely disagreeing with theology. Rejecting the teaching of the Church in these areas is more than a battle over words. <br /><br />Fr. MIchael J. Kavanaughnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-9411432536633766842016-06-28T08:12:17.518-04:002016-06-28T08:12:17.518-04:00Cardinal Muller can not convince the Holy Father w...Cardinal Muller can not convince the Holy Father who seems to be much too preoccupied with other issues of lesser significance. We know our Pope can be passionate about things he thinks important. But like Martha he cares more about the lesser issues and unlike Mary fails to choose the better part. He lost his way somewhere and some time. The question is what will it take for him to find the Way?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com