tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post2313095254335406254..comments2024-03-28T20:30:10.681-04:00Comments on southern orders: LET ME BE CLEAR, THE AMERICAN CARDINALS SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN SILENCED AND PHIL LAWLOR TELLS YOU WHY AND QUITE WELL AT THAT, SINCE I AGREE WITH HIMFr. Allan J. McDonaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-56593215832912651952013-03-09T20:11:13.011-05:002013-03-09T20:11:13.011-05:00PI, I take your point. Collegiality needs to be ad...PI, I take your point. Collegiality needs to be addressed, and so does subsidiarity. Unfortunately the latter failed spectacularly in the case of clerical sexual abuse, and too many bishops would still like to shuffle off their responsibilities onto the Holy See and be all things to all men in their own bailiwick. I'm not singling out the US bishops since the E&W ones are just as bad, if not worse; at least some of your bishops don't think they have to be in lockstep with the national 'Conference'.John Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027156691859606002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-21134682093958736392013-03-09T11:26:13.311-05:002013-03-09T11:26:13.311-05:00John - I think the Cardinals were trying to achiev...John - I think the Cardinals were trying to achieve "an understanding of 1) some of the more arcane technicalities of the process of choosing a pope, 2)the serious issues the next pope will have to address, and 3) a greater respect for Church leaders who, by numerous missteps in the not-so-distant past, have become the targets of derision."<br /><br />Nothing nefarious or underhanded here.<br /><br />Pater Ignotusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-36338309123212219252013-03-09T05:19:35.641-05:002013-03-09T05:19:35.641-05:00PI
In this context 'gain' simply means &#...PI<br /><br />In this context 'gain' simply means 'achieve'; it doesn't imply personal advantage, at least in British English. It might have a different nuance in North America.<br /><br />The most important questions need to be asked by bishops in relation to what is happening in their own dioceses.John Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027156691859606002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-9799930951874027082013-03-08T18:41:34.173-05:002013-03-08T18:41:34.173-05:00John - No one lectured a pope on his responsibilit...John - No one lectured a pope on his responsibilities. The Cardinals expressed perfectly legitimate concerns - concerns they and, from what we read, many Cardinals share.<br /><br />If not personal gain, then what "gain" were you suggesting when you said, " I don't see what the Americans were hoping to gain with their media operation."Pater Ignotusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-66918985415650070142013-03-08T18:33:09.536-05:002013-03-08T18:33:09.536-05:00Why do we need to know about the arcane process of...Why do we need to know about the arcane process of choosing a Pope?<br /><br />How is yakking to the press serving us?Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-83605884493147710162013-03-08T14:18:07.826-05:002013-03-08T14:18:07.826-05:00Pater, I wasn't suggesting that they were tryi...Pater, I wasn't suggesting that they were trying to gain anything for themselves. But they are not in Rome to lecture the next pontiff on his responsibilities. I don't think Ratzinger was one bit pleased when the US scandals of the 1970s and 1980s landed on his desk at the beginning of this century - scandals attributable to the failure of the American hierarchy to deal with dissent bordering on heresy, de facto schism, collapse of liturgy, catechesis and education (all of which are still going on, check the NCR combox if you don't believe me). It was against this background that sexual abuse took place. They need to put their own house in order before lecturing everyone else. Large sections of the North American Church have been on the verge of secession for decades. There have been, and are, problems elsewhere, but not on the same scale. John Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027156691859606002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-37623550412506065592013-03-08T09:35:38.431-05:002013-03-08T09:35:38.431-05:00John - I don't think the Americans were seekin...John - I don't think the Americans were seeking to "gain" anything for themselves with their press briefings. On the contrary, I think they wanted the rest of the world to gain an understanding of 1) some of the more arcane technicalities of the process of choosing a pope, 2)the serious issues the next pope will have to address, and 3) a greater respect for Church leaders who, by numerous missteps in the not-so-distant past, have become the targets of derision.<br /><br />As bishops, these men are servants. They were serving us until the gag order came down from on high.Pater Ignotusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-68049384516191205682013-03-08T09:22:54.282-05:002013-03-08T09:22:54.282-05:00BTW, So-called transparency and accountability are...BTW, So-called transparency and accountability are not the same thing.Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-75001865106245984592013-03-08T09:17:51.628-05:002013-03-08T09:17:51.628-05:00All of this could be pretty well squashed if Their...All of this could be pretty well squashed if Their Eminences would just shut their mouths and do what they are supposed to do.<br /><br />To be honest, I've had people over people, over people asking me who I think will be the next Pope. Perhaps it's because I'm a Catechist for my diocese, perhaps not, but my answer is always the same.<br /><br />It doesn't matter. The Holy Ghost will guide them and a Pope will be chosen. We will accept him and that should be enough.<br /><br />Sadly, it never is. I am not blogging about the Conclave, because no matter what I write, or what I emote, it will change nothing. I am praying for Their Eminences to be guided by the Holy Ghost and that should be enough.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03009356356243871772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-80219874161795871932013-03-08T05:47:09.350-05:002013-03-08T05:47:09.350-05:00Transparency is a new media word that demands ever...Transparency is a new media word that demands everything be made a public events circus. There are some things, many things, the public does not need to know. Given America's penchant for mindless disinformation and manufactured scandal, I think the Cardinals do need to keep their mouths shut.Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-19682294302649694452013-03-07T22:15:45.490-05:002013-03-07T22:15:45.490-05:00When I read all this about the Curial side versus ...When I read all this about the Curial side versus everyone else (including the Americans) I see it personified in Cardinal Bertone versus Cardinal George. Now, if that is a fairly accurate "sum up" or personification of the two factions let's remember which of the two has been more favorable to traditionalist causes such as the EF Mass. I might be totally wrong on this but I don't think it's Bertone or those of his mindset. He may be the Emeritus Pope's old friend but I don't think he always exactly acted as his servant while the EP was still Pope. Joseph Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00036852763902493131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-51281162102457483672013-03-07T17:31:27.651-05:002013-03-07T17:31:27.651-05:00A papal election in the television age is going to...A papal election in the television age is going to be a media circus anyway, and I don't see what the Americans were hoping to gain with their media operation. If they had anything serious to say, the press wouldn't be in the least bit interested. I cringe whenever a senior cleric appears in a television studio; within a few minutes he's bound to put his foot in it. O'Brien did so spectacularly in his last interview as archbishop. Dolan's "homespun expressions and one-liners" are quite frankly embarrassing and undignified. As for "transparency and accountability" this is what every politician promises at election time. They're never delivered because politics simply doesn't work that way.<br /><br />Can you see a televised tribunal of the Holy Office sitting in judgement on sundry heretics such as Bourgeois, Farley and Chittister, followed by a public auto-de-fe in St Peter's Square? Neither can I, although the prospect is certainly alluring.<br /><br />As for accountability, I'm sure the LCWR and Wir Sind Kirche would love the Vatican to be accountable to them, rather than to the Vicar of Christ. John Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027156691859606002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-44695672802135542502013-03-07T17:15:05.835-05:002013-03-07T17:15:05.835-05:00Malachi Martin once penned a book, long out of pri...Malachi Martin once penned a book, long out of print, called The Last Conclave. The book presented a no-holds-barred conclave where "Spirit of Vatican II" cardinals, progressives, traditionalists and others had a virtual verbal fistfight while debating the future of the Church. I never thought such a conclave description was realistic. Now I'm convinced there's no way they can escape such a conclave. I would not be at all surprised if more unsettling news leaks before the lock themselves up together. We must all pray that a worthy successor exits wearing white.Inflammatory O'Connornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-53940432620660448472013-03-07T16:50:16.143-05:002013-03-07T16:50:16.143-05:00"There had indeed been some serious leaks. Th..."There had indeed been some serious leaks. The Italian daily La Stampa, in particular, had printed detailed accounts of the “confidential” talks in the cardinals’ congregations. But these leaks had nothing to do with the American prelates’ daily briefings."<br /><br />Who cares? Does the author suggest that each cardinal be vetted before being "allowed" (or not) to go around giving interviews during Sede Vacante? It is so much easier and practical to simply allow their mouth, Frs. Lombardi and Rosica, to do the talking, and for them to do the praying and voting.<br /><br />I agree that, in normal circumstances, a level of transparency--or at least something that looks like it...--should be had. But Sede Vacante is an extraordinary time. Does the author suggest prelates start going around whispering to the MSM about picks for bishop?<br /><br />"Imposing a blackout on legitimate news briefings will not eliminate the illegitimate." Pretending there actually is any legitimate news will not eliminate the illegitimate.<br /><br />I am not interested in a lick of transparency with such matters of Pontifical Secret. Going on about this and that, this issue and that issue, this and that country, just gets everyone riled up waiting for "The First Black Pope." Chill out. Don't feed reporters anything. Even better, lock the Cardinals in the Domus Sanctae Marthae as soon as they arrive in Rome.<br /><br />And what is this blathering about "models of Church?" When did anyone ever think of such a concept until modern day? The Church is a holistic thing, not an organization we sit around and make mission statements and sales targets for. The Church isn't any "way," the Church just "is."ytcnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-6432941826571129542013-03-07T15:47:10.158-05:002013-03-07T15:47:10.158-05:00Maybe wherever Latin has been eclipsed or not taug...Maybe wherever Latin has been eclipsed or not taught thru and thru it should be restored...All internal meetings and future Conclaves should be held in Latin only. Less eavesdropping would be possible and few people but the people in the know would be able to understand snippets of information that they may overhear, then report and embellish. Since translation is often difficult to capture the exact intention of Latin phrases etc., only those speaking would know exactly what they mean. Less erroneous interpretations to fly around. Latin could act as a safeguard, not perfect but perhaps a better way. The importance of Latin is stressed in Pope John XXIII's Veterum Sapientia and the wisdom of its' intention and instructions becomes more clear with each passing decade...If Hebrew was completely revived there is no reason at all Latin can not be used by all prelates of the Church. In fact doesn't Canon law demand such. A complete, sound understanding of Latin at Ordination. If I am not incorrect I believe someone stands up and attests to this fact during the ceremony for each Priest.Gregorian Massnoreply@blogger.com