tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post1779558659178202163..comments2024-03-28T09:14:32.869-04:00Comments on southern orders: WHY THERE IS A NEED FOR THE NEW EVANGELIZATION AND WHY IT WILL FAIL IF THE LITURGY IS NOT SAVED!Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-12319681755969750382013-11-18T13:21:26.144-05:002013-11-18T13:21:26.144-05:00Robert: "Just WHAT did the promulgators of th...Robert: <b>"Just WHAT did the promulgators of the New Mass expect?"</b><br /><br />Though the answer to this question may not be so pertinent now, after almost a half century later. Surely, after this much experience with the new Mass, the Church is better equipped to gauge its consequences, both intended and unintended, and determine what changes in its norms and practice are consequently needed, independent of how liturgical needs were seen at that brief and anomalous time in history.Henrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-23809071000456098952013-11-17T16:40:24.751-05:002013-11-17T16:40:24.751-05:00EP II has in the original Latin "Haec ergo do...EP II has in the original Latin "Haec ergo dona, quaesumus, Spiritus tui rore sanctifica ..." (Therefore sanctify these gifts, we pray, with the dew of Thy Spirit). The former English version omitted any reference to dew, and the current translation opted for "dewfall" less for poetic reasons than because the word "dew" when pronounced carelessly sounds like "Jew".<br /><br />Furthermore, it not an ancient prayer. It contains elements of a so-called Canon of Hippolytus (a third-century antipope), but this is not one of these elements. The (reconstructed) Hippolytus text has no epiclesis. There is also no evidence that it was ever used as an anaphora in the Roman Rite. Interestingly, many of the "Hippolytan" expressions are in EP II's proper preface, which is hardly ever used.<br /><br />Cardinal Franjo Seper, Ratzinger's immediate predecessor at the CDF, refused to use EP II, and there is a growing consensus among liturgists that it should be dropped altogether. John Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027156691859606002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-30925943152277207222013-11-17T15:36:02.588-05:002013-11-17T15:36:02.588-05:00Gene - You make the same error Fr. McDonald made, ...Gene - You make the same error Fr. McDonald made, taking those words out of context.<br /><br />If you will kindly refer us to the location in the Roman Missal of the words whose meaning you seek, I will most happily and readily respond.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-54401399433281361152013-11-17T15:33:37.119-05:002013-11-17T15:33:37.119-05:00It falls to me to observe that we seem to be falli...It falls to me to observe that we seem to be falling over ourselves to show how others are falling down in their English usage. Perhaps it is dew to the fall, or the Fall.<br />Anonymous 2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-89154893656899928922013-11-17T14:41:00.055-05:002013-11-17T14:41:00.055-05:00Anonymous, how nice of you to explain that to us s...Anonymous, how nice of you to explain that to us since none of us must have had high school biology and chemistry. Now, please explain toy us windfall, nightfall, and evenfall. We are just learning so much...Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-24809053937501624622013-11-17T12:53:01.717-05:002013-11-17T12:53:01.717-05:00Dew doesn't fall. It forms as condensation wi...Dew doesn't fall. It forms as condensation within the meteorological parameters already stated.<br /><br />The use of "dewfall" in EP II is "Make holy, therefore, these gifts, we pray, by sending down your Spirit upon them like the dewfall..."<br /><br />The archaic belief was that dew fell from above like rain. So it is understandable why an ancient prayer uses the image of dew "falling" to symbolize the "sending down" of the Spirit at the epiclesis. <br /><br />Dew, however, does not fall. <br /><br />"Dewfall" is a lovely and useful expression of belief, but, it must be remembered, that dew does not "fall" from anywhere.<br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-60949885267232116972013-11-17T11:03:45.644-05:002013-11-17T11:03:45.644-05:00Once again, Henry, your superior insight shames me...Once again, Henry, your superior insight shames me… : )Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-74274303274273931782013-11-17T10:20:43.503-05:002013-11-17T10:20:43.503-05:00Methinks some of you fail to appreciate the contri...Methinks some of you fail to appreciate the contribution of Anonymous here. His comments are very informative, for they exemplify in a way that all can understand the linguistic attitude of those who destroyed the liturgy. So let's give credit where it rightly falls.Henrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-92003707096556740522013-11-17T10:07:14.107-05:002013-11-17T10:07:14.107-05:00If whenever I have a "falling out" with ...<br />If whenever I have a "falling out" with another person, perhaps someone like Anonymous will be around to "pick me up".<br />And speaking of insects, Gene, perhaps Anonymous can explain<br />how a "lightening bug" came to be.<br />I'll be looking for them when the next thunderstorm comes through. Georgenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-44025950808700315862013-11-17T09:21:33.263-05:002013-11-17T09:21:33.263-05:00Anonymous, You are incorrect. If you will go and s...Anonymous, You are incorrect. If you will go and stand under a big oak tree on a dewy morning you will see your error.<br />How unfortunate that it fell to Anonymous to have so little literary understanding. He has fallen upon this blog like some disoriented bug, flittering around a light at nightfall until, exhausted and wing-weary, he falls into a bug zapper…applause all around.Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-83446864243276580622013-11-17T09:07:50.661-05:002013-11-17T09:07:50.661-05:00If I can veer away from the scientific discussion ...If I can veer away from the scientific discussion about condensation for a moment, I'd like to make another point: This post mentions several times that those translating and jimmying around with the Mass considered the laity too dumb to handle Latin and, later, to handle a different translation. As a former schoolteacher, I would remind us that students will rise to the level of their teachers' expectations.<br /><br />Which begs the question: Just WHAT did the promulgators of the New Mass expect?Robert Kumpelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10567786012498143419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-56448501511807175622013-11-17T08:42:23.880-05:002013-11-17T08:42:23.880-05:00Dew does not fall.
"Dew forms when a surface...<br /><br />Dew does not fall.<br /><br />"Dew forms when a surface cools through loss of infrared radiation down to a temperature which is colder than the dewpoint of the air next to that surface. <br /><br />Dew most often forms on on evenings or nights when there are few clouds, since the greenhouse effect from clouds can keep surfaces from cooling by infrared radiation loss to outer space. Calm winds at night also contribute to dew formation because a windy night keeps the lowest layers of the atmosphere warmer, and also helps evaporate any dew that might begin to form on surfaces. <br /><br /> Dew is made of liquid water that has condensed from some of the water vapor contained in the air."<br /><br />Dew is formed by condensation. Dew does not "fall."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-67837942265667504382013-11-17T08:32:22.989-05:002013-11-17T08:32:22.989-05:00Anonymous, night doesn't fall, either. Neither...Anonymous, night doesn't fall, either. Neither does wind (windfall), meetings (the meeting falls on Fr.), or words (stupid statements just fall from Anonymous' lips). It is a poetic usage. Get a life or this will be your downfall,,,Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-36786923348879424442013-11-17T08:22:07.230-05:002013-11-17T08:22:07.230-05:00O my! Someone had better tell the dictionary publi...O my! Someone had better tell the dictionary publishers as all describe dewfall as follows:<br />n.<br />1. The formation of dew.<br />2. The time of evening when dew begins to form.Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-88477674039533799862013-11-17T08:18:06.006-05:002013-11-17T08:18:06.006-05:00Dew doesn't fall. There's the problem wit...Dew doesn't fall. There's the problem with "dewfall."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-59996516324686914032013-11-17T07:47:08.774-05:002013-11-17T07:47:08.774-05:00Our Bishops could change things for the better ove...Our Bishops could change things for the better overnight. The mystery is why they approve the use of disrespectful music in the Mass everywhere. Johnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-88536441419833767222013-11-17T07:12:42.496-05:002013-11-17T07:12:42.496-05:00Father McDonald,
I could'nt agr...Father McDonald,<br /> I could'nt agree more! This is why the typical parish liturgy status quo of "Glory and Praise" style music and the dominance of the rest of the 70's-onward liturgical ethos is so frustrating. <br /><br /> Why can't we base our liturgical practices and music on the actual words of Sacrosanctum Concilium (read in the context of the pre-Novus Ordo time in which is was written), the 2007 document by the USCCB, "Sing to the Lord" (which says that while vernacular is the norm that all ethnic groups should learn the basic Latin/Greek chants of the Kyrie, Sanctus and Agnus Dei--with the Credo and Gloria to be learned afterward) and Summorum Pontificum (which not only satisfies the desires of those who love the older form but also is a way of speeding up the re-introduction of some Latin and other more traditional liturgical practices back into the Ordinary Form). <br /><br />I think I have been misunderstood (even by my pastor)as a hardened EF advocate who wants to return exclusively to the EF (which is not true--I just think it should be ADDED in parishes as an essential part of the program of liturgical renewal). Why would what I have just proposed as a guiding set of principals be considered "dangerous" for a parish?Joseph Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00036852763902493131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-45595170274165646912013-11-17T06:30:24.710-05:002013-11-17T06:30:24.710-05:00FR, Wow! Your writing this makes me wonder why you...FR, Wow! Your writing this makes me wonder why you don't change even more at St. Jo's. You just made my morning…but you still fuss at me for saying basically the same thing…maybe it is the delivery…LOL! God bless you in your efforts.Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.com