tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post1731618925061193469..comments2024-03-28T01:50:39.781-04:00Comments on southern orders: I MISSED THE MOST PROFOUND SIGNS OF REVERENCE IN THE PHOTO BELOW EVEN WITH STANDING FOR HOLY COMMUNIONFr. Allan J. McDonaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comBlogger54125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-35818388071919693512014-06-24T21:16:55.677-04:002014-06-24T21:16:55.677-04:00Anonymous is using racial slurs. That's agains...Anonymous is using racial slurs. That's against the blog rules.<br /><br />The FARCE continues.Marchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13510317669833026685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-53345588809866154532014-06-24T17:38:45.190-04:002014-06-24T17:38:45.190-04:00Father McDonald
". Since VII we've closed...Father McDonald<br />". Since VII we've closed each High School in an effort to integrate and closed all black parishes to force integration." <br /><br />Somewhat different story (shifting population):<br />I was not long ago checking up on the Church and school I attended in the first and second grade. There were no black students at that time I attended there. Now it looks like it has turned into a predominately African-American Latino parish.Georgenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-985547777889192282014-06-24T17:36:05.345-04:002014-06-24T17:36:05.345-04:00Preacher...you do mean the Democratic Party who el...Preacher...you do mean the Democratic Party who elected President Barack Hussein Obama, right?<br /><br />The former southern redneck Democrats all became first Dixiecrats, then redneck Republicans when the civil rights legislation came in your favorite decade, the sixties.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-17523654234463679852014-06-24T16:44:01.329-04:002014-06-24T16:44:01.329-04:00Anonymous is just doing his or her part to ensure ...Anonymous is just doing his or her part to ensure the FARCE continues.Marchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13510317669833026685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-70572400921978733882014-06-24T16:11:20.185-04:002014-06-24T16:11:20.185-04:00Anonymous, on what evidence do you base your assum...Anonymous, on what evidence do you base your assumption? No redneck out of Whoshotya, Ga. is more racist than the Democratic Party.Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-35075218982716509142014-06-24T15:57:16.859-04:002014-06-24T15:57:16.859-04:00Anonymous,
Have you any evidence for this, or are...Anonymous,<br /><br />Have you any evidence for this, or are you simply casting stones?Rood Screenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09816036539243214384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-71534399492835650882014-06-24T15:12:27.421-04:002014-06-24T15:12:27.421-04:00Just one small error Eugene...the traditional/cons...Just one small error Eugene...the traditional/conservatives are generally the ones who have the nightmares about black men....popes, presidents...all of them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-67732797615983010442014-06-24T09:31:53.655-04:002014-06-24T09:31:53.655-04:00Katalina,
While I sympathize with your concerns,...Katalina, <br /><br />While I sympathize with your concerns, the fact is that the Vatican later expanded permission for this novel practice, so that each episcopal conference can now allow it, without the previous restrictions. Rood Screenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09816036539243214384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-12744461878013288762014-06-24T07:06:36.492-04:002014-06-24T07:06:36.492-04:00LOL! A black traditional/conservative Pope with a ...LOL! A black traditional/conservative Pope with a spine has got to be the liberals/progressives worst nightmare. Can you imagine the hand wringing and running in little circles? LOL!Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-50800541787438677102014-06-24T05:41:49.501-04:002014-06-24T05:41:49.501-04:00Interesting picture. The maniple would suggest a d...Interesting picture. The maniple would suggest a date before mid-1967 when that vestment was made optional, and I don't remember standing for Communion before the mid-1970s (except in parts of Europe, e.g. Germany). The rubrics for the NOM did not presume standing or CITH and Paul VI in 1969 mandated the traditional manner of reception (and then, typically, left a loophole large enough for progressive bishops to drive a coach-and-four through).<br /><br />Standing Communion became the norm because a) progressive liturgists wanted to push the idea of the people 'gathered round the table of the Lord' and altar rails were seen as a symbolic barrier between clergy and laity; b) the offering of the chalice to the laity, originally envisaged as an occasional practice, became more-or-less universal (at least in England and north America - it's less widespread in continental Europe); c) EMs were introduced so that laity (particularly female laity) could have a visible liturgical role. This was another loophole that was seized upon and gleefully exploited and indeed abused - many parishes still refer to them as 'Eucharistic Ministers' (Redemptionis Sacramentum notwithstanding) and use them as a matter of routine. The E&W bishops are against intinction because it makes EMs redundant.<br /><br />Regarding the racial issue, I would like to make two observations. A few years back I was at a Pentecost Mass during which Confirmation was given by the then Apostolic Nuncio. The black children (whether of West Indian or African origin) and the Asians, plus their families, were beautifully turned out whereas many of the English kids thought jeans and trainers were good enough. My second point is this. If in 2005 Cardinal Arinze had been elected pope the liberals would have been in a real quandary. He is every bit as orthodox as Joseph Ratzinger but would they have dared to be so vitriolic about a black man? <br /><br /> John Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027156691859606002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-58277702110071775542014-06-23T23:03:56.838-04:002014-06-23T23:03:56.838-04:00Once again like I said in an earlier post, this pr...Once again like I said in an earlier post, this practice of CIH while standing instead of kneeling is a serious LITURGICAL ABUSE that started in Holland. Pope Paul was NOT in favor of it but he put out guidelines that only where this was already in force could it be allowed. That did not apply the US. It was forced on us in June 1977 by Bernadine who Lied to Pope Paul.Katalinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13022632010831557996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-59181984388894619232014-06-23T20:24:05.686-04:002014-06-23T20:24:05.686-04:00Joseph Johnson, Re: Frock coats mistyping….it coul...Joseph Johnson, Re: Frock coats mistyping….it could have been worse…LOL!Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-121769023294690932014-06-23T20:19:50.960-04:002014-06-23T20:19:50.960-04:00Ignotus, the theology and worship of the Church is...Ignotus, the theology and worship of the Church is not predicated upon cultural changes or social fads. Some things are timeless and should remain so…as a reminder of God's constancy and immutability.<br /><br />On the other hand, I find it difficult to argue that things are better today than in the fifties, for instance. One only has to read the paper or watch the news for a very few minutes to be convinced that the world is batsh*t crazy and pretty much any outrage or abomination is just fine with people. I mean, would you rather young girls dress like Sandra Dee or Miley Cyrus (Smiley Virus).Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-28439337890699178652014-06-23T19:22:22.392-04:002014-06-23T19:22:22.392-04:00Eugene....You are truly a classy guy. Eugene....You are truly a classy guy. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-589786418111765512014-06-23T19:09:05.049-04:002014-06-23T19:09:05.049-04:00nineteenth century frock COATS, I meant to type . ...nineteenth century frock COATS, I meant to type . .Joseph Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00036852763902493131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-59593777471071730782014-06-23T17:49:32.032-04:002014-06-23T17:49:32.032-04:00Anonymous, My "kind" is Caucasian Americ...Anonymous, My "kind" is Caucasian American, preferably southern. Many of my kind are not of the same mind set, but that is not always essential. In your case, however, it is a factor…I would not want to spend the entire encounter watching you wipe your snotty nose while you smear verbal feces like a two year old….sorry.Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-28342076292681231852014-06-23T17:46:41.244-04:002014-06-23T17:46:41.244-04:00Joe Potillor,
Thank you for your rant. We should...Joe Potillor,<br /><br />Thank you for your rant. We should remember than the first non-Jewish Christian was African, that the first pope to use Latin was African, that the first Africans in North America (St. Augustine, La Florida) were Catholic, etc. Rood Screenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09816036539243214384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-47663876733300975562014-06-23T16:16:50.724-04:002014-06-23T16:16:50.724-04:00Joe,
I couldn't agree more. Chant, altar...Joe, <br /> I couldn't agree more. Chant, altar rails, ad orientem and Communion on the tongue are not the same as outside cultural things like 1950's poodle skirts, straw boater hats and nineteenth century frock ooats.<br /><br /> I wasn't part of the cultural upheaval of the 1960's as I was too young to know what was going on. All I know is that things and ways that my parents had already taught me in the first decade of my life were, in many cases, being thrown aside for things less worthwhile. No one will ever convince me that there aren't some things from the past (both in the Catholic sphere and in the outside cultural sphere) that are, indeed, superior to the things which replaced them. <br /><br />Some change is good--but not all of it!Joseph Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00036852763902493131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-14078480334016667682014-06-23T15:58:55.023-04:002014-06-23T15:58:55.023-04:00"Most people, including myself, (It's OK ..."Most people, including myself, (It's OK to say "me" Gene)would prefer to associate with their own kind." I don't suppose I'll get it, but I'd love to hear your description of what your "kind" is. <br /><br />You and I are the same gender and race. I'm sure, however, that we're miles from being the same kind. Peace be with you my brother.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-92049910713768191972014-06-23T15:47:05.820-04:002014-06-23T15:47:05.820-04:00I must say, reading this discussion....
I think a...I must say, reading this discussion....<br /><br />I think a lot of the problem is the self segregation (while not due to the vernacular, it certainly didn't help) that people naturally tend to do for particular things. Those that are like ourselves, we tend to want to be around. On this point I agree with Gene.<br /><br />I've never been one to use race to define me, my Catholicism comes before anything...the above said, I find particularly offensive when there's an attempt to cater to "black Catholics" with Gospel music, spirituals, protestantization of the Liturgy, insert liberal social justice cause here, etc. I find it absolutely abysmal that the Truth, Order and Beauty aren't used to their greatest potential. These qualities transcend culture, and we should not deprive anyone of beauty, order and the Truth. <br /><br />I absolutely will not sing Gospel music, spirituals, these are not my "heritage" I am Catholic, give me our tradition, the chants, the incense, etc. And any attempt to treat race as some kind of political movement within the Church should be condemned.<br /><br />Really though, the reason why "black evangelization" has failed is precisely because the Church is trying to protestantize itself, and why leave where one already is if one's going to encounter the same thing. Kneeling, Communion on the Tongue, Adoration, a sense of reverence these are things that transcend culture as well. I know of a perdominiantly Hispanic parish where the pastor has re installed the altar rail, uses the altar rail, and the parish is growing...Why not the same strategy for "black Catholics" Sorry for a bit of a rant.<br /><br />Православный физикhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11313371333531421128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-47135378207326501532014-06-23T14:44:20.386-04:002014-06-23T14:44:20.386-04:00Lot of pontificating here without an iota of socio...Lot of pontificating here without an iota of sociological evidence! To say the loss of Catholic identity in worship and cathecesis not to mention morality and popular devotions contibutes to what has happened internally. The Chirch is not a victim of circumstances here but in fact a willing participant toward anomie!Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-78356553117602094642014-06-23T14:39:38.221-04:002014-06-23T14:39:38.221-04:00"“Nostalgia: When you find the present tense ..."“Nostalgia: When you find the present tense and past perfect.”<br /><br />It is not possible to recreate the past by resurrecting the accoutrements of the past. Going to dances where everyone wears poodle skirts and penny loafers doesn't return us to the societal structures of teenagers of the 1950's.<br /><br />Putting little girls in white straw hats and boys in short sleeve shirts with skinny ties, moms in gloves and dads in dressy hats isn't going to resurrect the reverence of decades gone by. Not in Churches, not in baseball stadiums, not in courtrooms - it won't happen.<br /><br />This may be my most basic critique of the so-called Traditional Latin Mass thing. I see in it and attempt to bring back or resurrect that which cannot be brought back simply by making things look and sound as they did 60 or 600 years ago. <br /><br />The changes we have undergone as a Catholic society/culture in the last 60 or so years originated not in what language was used at mass or whether the priest faced the tabernacle of faced the people or wore a maniple. They come largely from outside, epochal shifts that had, I suggest, little or nothing to do with whether we say "Et cum spiritu tuo," or "And also with you," or "And with your spirit," or "Et avec vous."Pater Ignotusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-8301008414371916632014-06-23T14:17:32.156-04:002014-06-23T14:17:32.156-04:00This liberal, obligatory obsession with blacks is ...This liberal, obligatory obsession with blacks is absurd. Who cares if there are blacks or not. If they come, fine, if not fine. Most people, including myself, would prefer to associate with their own kind. Macon has a black parish of its own and it is because this is what blacks wanted. We have a few blacks at St. Jo's, but not that many. I don't really feel guilty about that at all.Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-58532280470031629082014-06-23T12:32:16.145-04:002014-06-23T12:32:16.145-04:00I was at MHT from 1991 to 2004.I was at MHT from 1991 to 2004.Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-38068303840410256692014-06-23T12:31:18.732-04:002014-06-23T12:31:18.732-04:00Correct, the all black Immaculate Conception paris...Correct, the all black Immaculate Conception parish was closed on Laney Walker Blvd. and the all white Sacred Heart was closed and the two merged into St. Patrick which reverted to its historic original name, Most Holy a Trinity. I was there 14 years asked for a Gospel Choir for the 12:30 Mass. Parish went from 600 families with about 250 black to 1,360 families but very few new blacks and more whites at the Gospel Mass than black !Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.com