tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post1492161236126510123..comments2024-03-28T16:23:19.433-04:00Comments on southern orders: FAR RIGHT HYSTERIA ABOUT DEACONESSES IS MUCH TO DO ABOUT NOTHING! THERE ARE DEACONESSES IN EASTERN ORTHODOXY WHICH IS A CHURCH THAT BASES HER TEACHINGS ON ORTHODOX BELIEFS AND PRACTICES!Fr. Allan J. McDonaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16986575955114152639noreply@blogger.comBlogger95125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-82643588734754518512016-05-21T19:57:48.136-04:002016-05-21T19:57:48.136-04:00"I am a part of all that I have met...send no..."I am a part of all that I have met...send not to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-78918439417053723002016-05-21T17:14:27.241-04:002016-05-21T17:14:27.241-04:00One further thought -- The Sinatra lyrics are inte...One further thought -- The Sinatra lyrics are interesting. Adapting them also to the present purpose, contrary to the individualistic assumptions of our age (hyper-individualistic assumptions over here), don’t our interdependence and interaction mean that we help shape, indeed co-constitute, each other's identities?Anonymous 2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-77743965843399071342016-05-21T16:12:02.397-04:002016-05-21T16:12:02.397-04:00I suspect that Gene and I could get along quite we...I suspect that Gene and I could get along quite well if we had the chance. But unfortunately, and I think to our mutual loss, he has declined my invitation to meet or even to say hello, presumably because one does not fraternize with those one regards as “the enemy.”<br /><br />Here is a Shakespearean joke for you (from Macbeth):<br /><br />“Out, damned Spot! Out, I say! And take Buster with you too.”<br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymous 2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-73456331244171492052016-05-21T15:36:13.029-04:002016-05-21T15:36:13.029-04:00I suspect that Gene and I could get along quite we...I suspect that Gene and I could get along quite well if we had the chance. But unfortunately, and I think to our mutual loss, he has declined my invitation to meet or even to say hello, presumably because one does not fraternize with those one regards as “the enemy.”<br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymous 2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-35613553653326647622016-05-21T14:57:23.184-04:002016-05-21T14:57:23.184-04:00We are all much more complicated than the caricatu...We are all much more complicated than the caricatures conveyed by our blog personae. Indeed, adapting another line from the Bard to the present purpose, “We are such stuff as dreams are made on.”Anonymous 2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-51519282752310336532016-05-21T13:00:42.472-04:002016-05-21T13:00:42.472-04:00Jan, Indeed so. Anon 2 and I have a strangely symb...Jan, Indeed so. Anon 2 and I have a strangely symbiotic relationship. But, we occasionally are on the same wave length with literary stuff, etc.Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-40890309840572642362016-05-21T08:10:57.804-04:002016-05-21T08:10:57.804-04:00As far as Anon 2 is concerned, I can't say tha...As far as Anon 2 is concerned, I can't say that "parting is such sweet sorrow" ...<br /><br />And Gene, as far as you're concerned, from his comments Anon 2's theme song could well be "I've got you under my skin" ...<br /><br />"I've got you under my skin<br />I've got you deep in the heart of me<br />So deep in my heart that you're really a part of me<br />I've got you under my skin" ...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-81217959966104077462016-05-21T06:56:46.340-04:002016-05-21T06:56:46.340-04:00Good...now let's do Lear.Good...now let's do Lear. Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-32757115003775943832016-05-20T21:36:13.865-04:002016-05-20T21:36:13.865-04:00Words, words, words . . . and the rest is silence....Words, words, words . . . and the rest is silence.<br /><br />Well, one of us had to say it. =)<br />Anonymous 2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-80605446713929374752016-05-20T21:36:08.496-04:002016-05-20T21:36:08.496-04:00"Now cracks a noble heart. Goodnight, Sweet P..."Now cracks a noble heart. Goodnight, Sweet Prince. Flights of angels sing the to thy rest."Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-75286313701412639842016-05-20T16:14:52.528-04:002016-05-20T16:14:52.528-04:00"...They have a plentiful lack of wit, togeth..."...They have a plentiful lack of wit, together with most weak hams..."Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-13893527454744466322016-05-20T13:35:45.405-04:002016-05-20T13:35:45.405-04:00Though this be madness, yet there is method in’t.Though this be madness, yet there is method in’t.Anonymous 2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-41594484322420968932016-05-20T06:18:49.029-04:002016-05-20T06:18:49.029-04:00There are more things in Heaven and earth, Anon 2,...There are more things in Heaven and earth, Anon 2, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06672484450736725268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-79973952596096430082016-05-19T23:24:10.903-04:002016-05-19T23:24:10.903-04:00O day and night, but this is wondrous strange!O day and night, but this is wondrous strange!Anonymous 2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-46879788855170948032016-05-19T18:49:03.631-04:002016-05-19T18:49:03.631-04:00Poor Anonymous 2 hung by his own petard ...Poor Anonymous 2 hung by his own petard ...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-58833379254315816632016-05-19T14:45:43.598-04:002016-05-19T14:45:43.598-04:00Jan:
You are exhausting. But I am trying to be ve...Jan:<br /><br />You are exhausting. But I am trying to be very patient. So, let me try once again. <br /><br />If the Pope says “I don’t remember the footnote” and someone else then says “AND HE CAN’T RECALL THE FOOTNOTE? Does anyone believe that is a true statement” or “The ‘I don’t remember the footnote statement’ is about as credible as when . . ,” they cannot be understood to be saying that the Pope has genuinely forgotten the statement or doesn’t know about something. The ordinary meaning of their words is that they do not believe the Pope because they think he can indeed recall the footnote. In other words, they are saying that they think he is not telling the truth about what he remembers, that he is lying. Now, they do not actually use the words “I think the Pope is lying” but that is what the words they do use ordinarily mean. I am sorry if you still don’t agree. We can continue to disagree until the cows come home and at the end of the day readers can decide for themselves what they think the words mean.<br /><br />Regarding my other comments you post at 10:21 a.m., they are all responses to Gene. I have already addressed my exchanges with him. Please see my posts of 2:30 p.m. and 9:21 p.m. on May 16 and 2:41 p.m. on May 17 above, where I say everything that I need to say on this matter.<br /><br />Regarding the videos and other material, I have never denied that there are genuine problems with Muslims Europe or that there may be genuine videos or reports about those problems. Indeed, the existence of problems in our relationship with Muslims is the very premise behind my responses to you. It is why I challenge you when you post mendacious and manipulative material (please understand, I am not accusing you of being mendacious and manipulative yourself, just that you are being manipulated). In my view posting such material does not help address the problems; it just makes them worse. I will try to look at the new links you provide here. But even if they are genuine reports that can be taken at face value, it would not change my assessment of the previous videos you posted.<br /><br />Jan, I really am trying to be charitable towards you and to give you the benefit of the doubt. But I have to begin to wonder what is going on with you. As I said before, please stop.<br /><br />Anonymous 2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-28138934286774177272016-05-19T11:01:46.032-04:002016-05-19T11:01:46.032-04:00Also, Anonymous 2 others on the thread did not acc...Also, Anonymous 2 others on the thread did not accuse the Pope of lying. They said they found his statement that he couldn't remember the footnote as not believable, and they are entitled to make that statement as AL was supposedly written by Francis himself of which the footnote forms a part and so the ordinary man would expect Francis to know what he put into the document. <br /><br />There are many statements that people make that are unbelievable but it may be that the person isn't lying and that they have genuinely forgotten or didn't know about something. Therefore, you can find a statement unbelievable and say so but, at the same time, not know if the person was lying or not. So when you say that I and others accused the Pope of being a liar you are simply being dishonest and this is the last thing I am going to say on the matter ... Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-14963307704861537572016-05-19T10:28:07.907-04:002016-05-19T10:28:07.907-04:00Anonymous 2, as you got us on to this topic as reg...Anonymous 2, as you got us on to this topic as regards Islamic terrorism. Although you continue to downplay videos of Muslims rioting in Europe etc, people can see these videos for themselves and decide if they want that sort of thing in the US. All you have to do is put Google "Rioting Muslims" and click on videos and voila there you have it so many to pick and choose from ...<br /><br />I link just a couple for you to look at from the Daily Mail and Telegraph so you and others know what is going on in the UK and Europe:<br /><br /><br />"Up to 100 demonstrators who ‘wreaked havoc’ in a Tesco store and attacked police officers in an apparent protest against its stocking of Israeli food are being sought by police."<br /><br />Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2726831/Police-officers-attacked-stock-thrown-Gaza-protestors-wreak-havoc-Tesco-store.html#ixzz493lkQJyg <br />Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook<br /><br /><br /><br />"Man dressed in Muslim clothes chases four young teenagers and shoots one in London Cul-de-sac"<br /><br />http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3498580/Shooting-suburbia-Chilling-moment-gunman-dressed-Muslim-robes-opens-fire-teenager-broad-daylight-north-London-cul-sac.html<br /><br /><br />Muslim kills man on train in Germany attacks four others with knife.<br />http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/10/one-man-dead-after-attacker-heard-shouting-allahu-akbar-knifes-m/<br /><br /><br /><br />Last but not least: <br /><br /><br />A newsreader interrupted her own broadcast to urge fellow Muslims to feel 'shame' over terrorist atrocities like the Brussels and Paris attacks.<br /><br />One very brave Muslim woman - Nadine Al-Budair has said that it's time that people stopped saying that the terrorist acts committed by terrorists does not represent Islam: <br /><br />"Nadine Al-Budair made a three-minute speech during a show on a Saudi Arabian news channel where she told her fellow Muslims to stop 'shredding their conscience'.<br /><br />The broadcaster begged Muslims to take responsibility for the terrorists in their midst instead of suggesting that they were simply a 'rarity'. <br /><br />'We must admit that they are present everywhere, that their nationality is Arab and that they adhere to the religion of Islam. 'We must acknowledge that we are the ones who gave birth to them.'<br /><br />Previously Al-Budair has critcised Muslims in her column for a Kuwaiti newspaper, telling them to stop blaming the West for their problems, writes the Mirror.<br /><br />She wrote: 'It is strange that we condemn instead of apologising to the world.<br />'It is strange that we condemn instead of addressing what is happening in our midst.'<br /><br />Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3530463/Newsreader-interrupts-broadcast-urge-fellow-Muslims-feel-shame-stop-shedding-conscience-terrorist-atrocities.html#ixzz493rBpa00 <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-11988767555560305392016-05-19T10:21:15.285-04:002016-05-19T10:21:15.285-04:00Anonymous 2, yes, people can read the posts for th...Anonymous 2, yes, people can read the posts for themselves and see how you twist things, needle and are patently dishonest. Everything you post highlights your style -<br /><br /> "Anonymous 2 to Calvin of Hippo: You continue to slander and vilify anyone who dares to question your distorted and extreme view of the world."<br /><br />"Anyway, since you evidently do not care for bathos, perhaps you would prefer sarcasm. So, here is an alternative" <br /><br />"No apologies for being male here. We just have a somewhat different idea of what being male means. In my view Jesus Christ was the model male. Funny, but I don’t recall Him getting into a bar fight, or maybe the Gospel writers just left that bit out. Hey, that gives me an idea. Why don’t you write a Gospel According to Gene?"<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />So, once again, Anonymous 2, all of this shows that you make ad hominem attacks instead of sticking to the point of what is being discussed and certainly shows that where you are concerned Fr Kavanaugh got it so wrong.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-21755403965371584252016-05-19T05:37:52.685-04:002016-05-19T05:37:52.685-04:00Jan:
The fact that others before you on the threa...Jan:<br /><br />The fact that others before you on the thread accused Pope Francis of lying provides a context that makes it even more understandable that a reader would read your words as also accusing Pope Francis of lying and as simply jumping on the same bandwagon.<br /><br />I responded to you and not the others for two main reasons. First, I have a history with you to which I allude in my comment. Second, your own sweeping allegations go way beyond what anyone else had said. They focused solely on the footnote. You refused to believe not only the Pope’s statement regarding the footnote. You also refused to believe any of the explanations and clarifications of the Pope’s statements that have come out of the Vatican over the previous three years. In other words, you seem to be saying that these are_all_lies.<br />Anonymous 2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-68707773005952327272016-05-18T22:15:09.693-04:002016-05-18T22:15:09.693-04:00P.S. Here is a link for the thread I reference in ...P.S. Here is a link for the thread I reference in my previous post:<br /><br />http://southernorderspage.blogspot.com/2015/09/thank-god-i-am-not-like-these-priest.html<br /><br />Anonymous 2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-51851945577429575342016-05-18T21:59:29.280-04:002016-05-18T21:59:29.280-04:00Jan:
Regarding what you did or did not accuse Pop...Jan:<br /><br />Regarding what you did or did not accuse Pope Francis of, I have set out the evidence in my previous posts on this thread. Readers can reach their own judgments about what the language you use means. And if it is indeed the case that you did not intend to accuse Pope Francis of lying, perhaps you need to be more careful about what you write.<br /><br />Similarly, perhaps you need to be more careful about links that you post, so that you are not duped by mendacious and manipulative videos or other material. I am not going to re-litigate the videos with you. Instead I refer you and others to the thread “Thank God I am not like these priests Pope Francis is judging! Yes, the pope of who am I to judge who in fact judges constantly which is so Italian, to deny, project and do it! But I digress” dated September 10, 2015, and in particular to our exchange beginning with your post of 9:51 p.m. on September 13, in which I set out the relevant evidence. Again, readers can reach their own judgments after examining this evidence. <br /><br />Moreover, after reading our exchanges both on this thread and on that thread readers can also reach their own judgments about “how [I] actually go about on this blog” and can compare it with how you, Gene, and some others "actually go about on this blog."<br /><br />As for Trump, given the abysmal debasement of our political conversation that he both exemplifies and further encourages – a debasement that is regrettably also found all too often on this blog and that I quixotically try to combat – I too will not be surprised if he becomes the next President of the United States. As the well-known saying goes, each people gets the government it deserves.<br /> <br /><br />Anonymous 2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-58507931529285664582016-05-18T21:07:41.529-04:002016-05-18T21:07:41.529-04:00Just for clarity I put up my full comments so that...Just for clarity I put up my full comments so that people can see for themselves that you saying I am calling the Pope a liar is a dishonest interpretation of what I said:<br /><br />"Very convenient that the Christians didn't have their papers in order but the three Muslim families did. How did the Muslim families manage to get documentation and visas to Rome unless they had advance warning of when and where they were going? Totally unbelievable as is not being aware of the footnote. In fact, you would expect the Pope to be aware of the footnote more than he would know of the situation as regards the papers of families picked "randomly" from thousands of refugees ... only the absolutely gullible would believe what we're being fed by the Vatican these days. ...<br /><br />Anonymous 2 said... Jan: So now you accuse the Holy Father of lying? You speak of being gullible and naïve. I wish you would bring the same skepticism to some of the mendacious and manipulative videos to which you have posted links on this Blog during the past year "<br /><br /><br />Also others commented before me but you didn't take issue with them. This is what they said:<br /><br />"AND.......HE CAN'T RECALL THE FOOTNOTE! Does anyone believe that is a true statement? Really? The whole world is talking about that footnote and he can't recall it."<br /><br />"the "I don't remember the footnote" statement is about as credible as when Bishop Niederauer, Nancy Pelosi's bishop, in response to a question, stated that he really didn't know her position on abortion since he hadn't discussed it with her. Is he really so insulated that he doesn't know that that footnote has set off a firestorm?"<br /><br />"Perhaps this is a bad translation, or perhaps the Holy Father just misspoke. But if he truly could not remember the famous/infamous footnote in question, then we're in serious trouble. In that case, this is no time for division among serious Catholics. We need to batten down the hatches and pray for divine intervention.<br /><br />I'm now moving beyond patient confusion to full-blown bewilderment."<br /><br />"Thanks for your clarification. I wish that I could give him the benefit of the doubt. But the pattern of behavior--the modernists' in general as well as Francis's in particular--make it very difficult for me to do so."<br /><br />So this shows that not only are you dishonest but also you go after certain people on this blog just to needle them while ignoring the comments of others. Does that mean you also fall into the category of a troll? <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-66125938804547642302016-05-18T20:10:16.338-04:002016-05-18T20:10:16.338-04:00Anonymous 2, it is good that you put up this post ...<br />Anonymous 2, it is good that you put up this post because it shows how you actually go about on this blog. You again accuse me of calling Pope Francis a liar. To say that something is unbelievable is not accusing him of lying, as I explained that I don't believe a word that comes out of the Vatican, particularly in the face of reports of the two young Christians who were told that they were to be brought to Rome with the Pope and then dropped like a couple of hot potatoes in face of the agreement reached with the UN. Many Protestants have found this situation deplorable and I am no different from them.<br /><br />According to you I linked mendacious and manipulative videos, but they are clear and obvious video evidence of Muslims running amok in mobs in France and other places in Europe, destroying vehicles etc. Anyone can find them on the internet, which will prove that they are not mendacious at all as you claim. Many of the reports and videos are carried by reputable news outlets who have reported on the rioting by Muslim groups in Europe. There is undeniable video evidence of some Muslims throwing away good food and kicking water bottles on to train tracks. The concerted sex attacks on women in Germany at New Year. Also reported are the disgusting cases involving thousands of young girls in Britain groomed for sex by Muslims gangs and widely reported - nothing mendacious there. The simple fact of the matter is that you will not face the facts that even a simple man can see for himself. It is no wonder that Trump is likely to be the next President of the US because people have evidence of what mass immigration of Muslims has done to Europe, to Germany, France and the UK in particular.<br /><br />But I digress to get back to the point: when you accuse me of calling Pope Francis a liar and putting up mendacious videos, when the evidence is to the contrary, this makes you dishonest but above all putting up the above posts proves beyond all doubt the point I have made that you do not maintain an even keel on this blog as claimed by Fr Kavanaugh. <br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7846189835239594160.post-24112714869188152892016-05-18T09:10:37.781-04:002016-05-18T09:10:37.781-04:00Jan:
Pope Francis: “I don’t remember the footnot...Jan:<br /><br /><br />Pope Francis: “I don’t remember the footnote.”<br /><br />Pope Francis: “I didn’t make a religious choice between Christians and Muslims. These three families had their documents in order. There were, for example, two Christian families who didn’t.”<br /><br />Jan: “Totally unbelievable as is not being aware of the footnote . . . I don’t believe a word that comes out of [the Vatican].”<br /> <br />If you are not accusing Pope Francis of lying, then please explain what your words mean. <br /><br />Moreover, in subsequent comments on that thread both Mark Thomas and I suggested that you were accusing Pope Francis of lying and you did not deny it. <br /><br />Anonymous 2: So now you accuse the Holy Father of lying? You speak of being gullible and naïve. I wish you would bring the same skepticism to some of the mendacious and manipulative videos to which you have posted links on this Blog during the past year – from global warming to Muslim refugees arriving in Europe (admittedly, not all of the videos fell into this category, and some of your posts on these topics have been genuinely informative). I agree we have not reached rock bottom yet but we take another dive with your post today. Sorry, but that is how I feel about it.”<br /><br />Mark Thomas: Pope Francis said that the plan was to bring three Christian families to Rome. Rome went by the book in following the laws of governments. The three Christian families did not have their paperwork in order. That is that. <br /><br />I don't have any reason to doubt the Pope's explanation. We are dealing with bureaucrats, immigration laws...we're also dealing with the Vatican. I mean, what could possibly go wrong?”<br /><br />Jan: I am sorry but I simply don't believe the pat story that there were no Christians or Yazdis in the camp who didn't have papers ready, although happily for them the three Muslim families did. It simply beggars belief.<br /><br />Mark Thomas: . . . Pope Francis explained in plausible fashion that three Christian families had been selected to return with him to Rome. Unfortunately, the paperwork of each family was not in order. If you wish to see that as a lie...well, I don't...but you do. Sorry, we disagree about that.<br /><br />Jan: Mark, Christians don't have to be on the plane with the Pope. What is to stop him bringing Christian families or Yadzis to Rome now? Etc.<br /><br />Jan, you continue to accuse me of dishonesty when much of my posting is an attempt to ensure honesty in the conversation. You do not like being challenged or called out (for example, regarding mendacious and manipulative videos that you propagate further on this blog). As Father Kavanaugh says, it is not uncharitable to challenge errors in a civil manner.<br /><br /><br />Anonymous 2noreply@blogger.com